09.15.2011 - Denial and Radical Acceptance

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    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Radical Acceptance is definitely called into question on that score! ;-)
    Santoshima: sure
    Aphrodite Macbain: you should have seen me dancing with Tomaso!
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): h ha! fierce dancing indeed.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain giggles
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Disney did see things others did not
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I loved it!
    Aphrodite Macbain: what did he see Arch?
    Santoshima: hello zen
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Zen.
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya Zen and Zon
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): I cann't speak for him, Aph, but for me, he saw the animus
    Zon Kwan: hi venus
    Aphrodite Macbain: he he Arch
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): "A joy, a depression, a meanness,
     some momentary awareness comes
     as an unexpected visitor. "
    Aphrodite Macbain: what's that from Bruce
    Zen (zen.arado): so should we let them in?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Guest_House.html
    Aphrodite Macbain: yes, you never know what they may bring
    Aphrodite Macbain: Ah good Ole Rumi
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Me thinks they are already in -- so the question is whether to accept them or to deny them.
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Zen, your choice....safety in a crypt.....or alive in danger
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Daryl! GTSY again
    Santoshima: accept = acknolwedge?
    Aphrodite Macbain: = allow in
    Santoshima: already in ...
    Dari (daryl.taov): hey aph :)
    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    Aphrodite Macbain: then accept
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Really, Ari, now you show up?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): acknowledge and welcome them.
    Zon Kwan: radically
    Arisia Vita: I'm glad to see you too Arch :)
    Zen (zen.arado): common sense says ...keep them out
    Arisia Vita: and all of you
    Aphrodite Macbain: and perhaps even enjoy them
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Oh right.....Radical Acceptance...forgot the text
    Zen (zen.arado): why invite trouble?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Hello again Arisia
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Ari
    Zon Kwan: dont invite but accept if it comes
    Santoshima: :) zen
    Arisia Vita: a pleasure to be near you all...
    Santoshima: hi arisia
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): "To be a man is to undo your belt and LOOK for trouble." -- Zorba the Greek
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hi, Ari!
    Zen (zen.arado): well..just putting the usual commonsense view
    Aphrodite Macbain: I'm afraid I have to go. I just wanted to drop in and say hi and give my love <3
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Bye, Aph!
    Zen (zen.arado): what we would probably really do?
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye!
    Santoshima: hi ... bye ...
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Aph
    Dari (daryl.taov): bye :)
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Cal......I'd almost forgotten you exist
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Arch
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Cal :)
    Calvino Rabeni: I couldn't forget ya
    Santoshima: greetings Calvino
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Cal.perhaps the "
    Calvino Rabeni: Zen :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): ooops.
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): perhaps the "natural" thing is to project their existence onto some external form (or person) (or goddess) in order NOT to have to accept them as part of ourselves.
    Zen (zen.arado): doesn't the poem sound a little passive?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): The Guest House
     This being human is a guest house.
     Every morning a new arrival.
     A joy, a depression, a meanness,
     some momentary awareness comes
     as an unexpected visitor.
     Welcome and entertain them all!
     Even if they're a crowd of sorrows,
     who violently sweep your house
     empty of its furniture,
     still, treat each guest honorably.
     He may be clearing you out
     for some new delight.
     The dark thought, the shame, the malice,
     meet them at the door laughing,
     and invite them in.
     Be grateful for whoever comes,
     because each has been sent
     as a guide from beyond.
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Cafe for the Ways of Knowing session -- We'll be discussing "Radical Acceptance' today.
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Are we doing that yet....seems a long wait
    Zen (zen.arado): because it really is radical
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Is Rumi advising "Radical Acceptance," though?
    Zon Kwan: hm not passive to me
    Zen (zen.arado): so radical I don't thnk many actually do it
    Zon Kwan: it means to face things
    Zen (zen.arado): or allow things?
    Zon Kwan: thats qit active
    Zon Kwan: no
    Zon Kwan: accept the moment
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): I have to comment Zon & Zen
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): letting go of all resistance to reality?
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): My Dad told me to always be honest
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Zon Kwan: dont fight with reality but change it if you can
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): The only reality I could find to honesty was accuracy
    Zen (zen.arado): ah ..change it
    Zon Kwan: respond
    Zon Kwan: thats active
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Accuracy places a person who does not fit... that person is in constant conflict
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): A madness descends
    Zen (zen.arado): people who do not fit often get things changed though
    Zen (zen.arado): others rest in complacency
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Yes, I agree....change it.....but change creates a new reality....and all the old problems still exist
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): so some withdraw -- in monasticism, hermitry, anarchy, . . .
    Zen (zen.arado): that radical acceptance article
    Calvino Rabeni: Any successful change involves the creative appearance of new problems :)
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): There have been few transformational changes in the 60,000 years of homo sapiens time here
    Zen (zen.arado): the guy goes on a retreat where you just sit and do nothing for three weeks
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): For me, the question is whether "avoidance" is even possible -- since these "guests" are really within ME -- not just the general society.
    Zon Kwan: i think it means accept reality in the moment that faces you...welcome it... dont escape..dont avoid..then respond
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): good point, Zen. Being present with whatever is rising in the moment.
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Zon, I meant, sry.
    Calvino Rabeni: Change is not problem solving, it is just living.
    Zon Kwan: nods
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Bruce listens.
    Arisia Vita: In times of change learners inherit the earth; while the learned find themselves beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. - Eric Hoffer
    Zen (zen.arado): could any of us sit and do nothing?
    Zen (zen.arado): it's very difficult
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): not I, Zen.
    Zon Kwan: doing happems all the time
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Do any still know Muad'Dib.
    Zon Kwan: the point is who is doing
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): nope -- say more, Arch.
    Zen (zen.arado): it's like we are forced to keep doing
    Calvino Rabeni: I think I agree Zon
    Calvino Rabeni: not doing is not an option
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Why must "doing" and "being" be opponents?
    Zon Kwan: they are not
    Calvino Rabeni: but luckily the world can't be "fixed" or "improved" so we don't have to worry about it (in a fundamental sense)
    Zon Kwan: breathing takes place when you sit
    Zon Kwan: circulation
    Zon Kwan: thoughts arise
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): if I am starving and homeless, and then find some way of finding food and shelter, then my "world" has improved -- through doing.
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Breathing........yes, I experienced the cessation of that last nite, along with rigor mortis
    Zen (zen.arado): our 'doing' is pretty insignificant in the long run
    Zen (zen.arado): except to make us feel important?
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): I am saying this planet is dying, and I wish it to live.
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Violet :)
    Zon Kwan: us ?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Cal qualified "doing" by saying that it changed nothing "fundamentally."
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Zen, everyone :)
    Santoshima: hi violet
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Atari.
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): There is a place where one steps into the abyss
    Zon Kwan: we are not doing anything, doing takes place through us
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Because to do otherwise, is to be dishones
    Calvino Rabeni: Do you therefore have a responsibility Archmage (about the planet, etc.) ?
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Yes, Cal, I do
    Zon Kwan: flies away...waves
    Calvino Rabeni: I think it's ok to say "doing takes place through me, and BY me"
    Coffee Mug: whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Hypno
    Zen (zen.arado): have a seat
    Hypnofan Wingtips: hi zen
    Dari (daryl.taov): hi there :)
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Hypnofan
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Hypno.
    Dari (daryl.taov): Dari wonders if sitting here doing nothing is really doing nothing
    Zen (zen.arado): we are talking about Radical Acceptance and non -doing
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): It blinks in and out
    Hypnofan Wingtips: ok..
    Hypnofan Wingtips: thank you ..i will listen
    Dari (daryl.taov): Dari wonders if writing about doing nothing while doing nothing yet typing is doing nothing
    Calvino Rabeni: The active life in accord with Tao is called non-doing
    Zen (zen.arado): do we have any choice about it?
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): At times I see the responsibility.....at times I see only what is in front of me
    Dari (daryl.taov): Dari wonders if all virtuality is radical acceptance personnified
    Zen (zen.arado): Zen wonders about that
    Calvino Rabeni: Maybe the opposite, with virtuality?
    Calvino Rabeni: Virtuality means what?
    Calvino Rabeni: "could be, if I wish it"
    Calvino Rabeni: a possibility, looking to be embodied by some force outside itself
    Santoshima: yes, most likely, disembodies and not of much use, unless it can be harnessed to benefit in RL
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think we're always "doing" in a sense....but we can let go of a need to "do"
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): Another was kind enought to invite me here
    Santoshima: disembodied*
    Zen (zen.arado): so we don't have any choice about what to allow in Rumi's poem?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Rumi suggest that we allow ALL of it.
    Zen (zen.arado): but can we Violet?
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): I feel that storm clouds are gathering
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): And it is not time for the clouds to storm
    Santoshima: arch, poetically speaking, or actually?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Welcome and entertain them all!
     Even if they're a crowd of sorrows,
     who violently sweep your house
     empty of its furniture,
     still, treat each guest honorably.
     He may be clearing you out
     for some new delight.
    Arch (archmage.atlantis): I apologize, but I must take my leave
    Zen (zen.arado): I am being a bit inquisitorial
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): bye, Arch.
    Santoshima: alas, bye arch
    Zen (zen.arado): hope it isn't offending you Arch?
    Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, not just "allow" but actively welcome and "entertain" them ! :)
    Zen (zen.arado): this allowing seems right to me actually but I think it isn't so easy in practice
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey oO0Oo.
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think the acceptance in the Rumi poem doesn't necessarily advocate non-action as much as....celebration of everything (like lots of Rumi poems!)
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Sam :)
    Calvino Rabeni: The "guest house" metaphor says... one is the HOST of the house, and is there to give all those visitors a good time and care for them
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Sam
    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð waves and sits quietly
    Calvino Rabeni: That is so Active compared with acceptance or allowance as a concept
    Dari (daryl.taov): hey sam :)
    Zen (zen.arado): Zen wants to sit quietly too
    Zen (zen.arado): (but find it difficult)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Zen is being naughty ?
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Samúð (oo0oo): Hard to do nothing
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I like that, Cal
    Zen (zen.arado): we love our distractions so much
    Zen (zen.arado): or I do anyway
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Yes
    Calvino Rabeni: I like that the guest house poem suggests, embracing them and serving them a drink, introducing them to the other guests
    Zen (zen.arado): yes active acceptance
    Zen (zen.arado): welcoming sorrows
    Zen (zen.arado): welcoming death?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): No resistance.
    Zen (zen.arado): so it's not non doing so much as nin resisting the inevitable?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I see the poem as quite active -- not passive.
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I think so....or even celebrating the invetible as parts of the whole
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): i have a little trouble with "because each has been sent
     as a guide from beyond."
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): unless "beyond" means "within."
    Zen (zen.arado): sometimes I feel that
    Santoshima: active engagement with the mystery
    Zen (zen.arado): does anyone else?
    Dari (daryl.taov): maybe writing this poem is a proof that rumi was too active to let go himself ?
    Zen (zen.arado): as if tests have been arranged for me
    Dari (daryl.taov): someone telling me to shut up is still not shutting up himself
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): some cosmic design, Zen?
    Hypnofan Wingtips: sorry must go..
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yes, I have felt that myself.
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hey! Good point, Dari....a lot of Rumi's poems celebrate weaknesses, too
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Bye, Hypno.
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Ne :)
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Hypno
    Dari (daryl.taov): do as i say, not as i do
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Be.
    Calvino Rabeni: The poem suggests being active with what is, rather than controlled by likes and dislikes?
    Dari (daryl.taov): so, weakness is the fact that no human can really let go
    Calvino Rabeni: A joy, a depression, a meanness,
     some momentary awareness comes
     as an unexpected visitor.
     Welcome and entertain them all!
     Be grateful for whoever comes,
     because each has been sent
     as a guide from beyond.
    Be (be.ewing): All - Hi :)
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Be
    Dari (daryl.taov): we need instances of separation to get into that state, like zazen
    Dari (daryl.taov): but even zazen is organized
    Calvino Rabeni: It ends up in the marketplace eventually
    Dari (daryl.taov): so by not doing anything in zazen, we re stil doing zazen
    Santoshima: namaste
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Bye, Santo.
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Be (be.ewing): Santo - take care
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Take care, Santoshima :)
    Zen (zen.arado): that's why non dualists don't lie zazen so much
    Dari (daryl.taov): bye santo
    Samúð (oo0oo): personal instances may indeed get between the lines
    Zen (zen.arado): it can be seen as a way to get somewhere
    Samúð (oo0oo): Bye santo
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Santo
    Calvino Rabeni: isn't zen a boat to get out of once the stream is crossed?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I like the image, Cal.
    Zen (zen.arado): that's more Buddhist
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): But also, Zazen for Zazen's sake. . . "just sitting."
    Dari (daryl.taov): in zen there is no boat
    Zen (zen.arado): Zen would stress non attaing more
    Zen (zen.arado): yes
    Zen (zen.arado): just sit
    Zen (zen.arado): nowhere to go
    Dari (daryl.taov): siting doing nothing is still sitting, right ?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): I remember when i first realized that the place to understand a koan is INSIDE it.
    Dari (daryl.taov): even though we could do zazen upright
    Zen (zen.arado): I don't know
    Zen (zen.arado): we are not stones
    Zen (zen.arado): we are always doing something
    Zen (zen.arado): we can't stop thinking
    Samúð (oo0oo): polishing our stoneness
    Zen (zen.arado): yep :)
    Dari (daryl.taov): :)
    Be (be.ewing): I do on occasion -- it is really a nice feeling -- begging out -- zoning out -- whatever you want to call it
    Be (be.ewing): *vegging
    Samúð (oo0oo): the ne serves the other tea
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): What makes the acceptance "radical"?
    Samúð (oo0oo): *one
    Calvino Rabeni: Radical means, perhaps, you don't pick and choose?
    Zen (zen.arado): I think because it is so unlike what we normally do
    Calvino Rabeni: Radical could mean, deep
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hmm...for some of us, zoning out is our default state :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yes, Zen, and perhaps because we've previously been so resistant to such "guests."
    Zen (zen.arado): it's easy to sit here and agree with Rumi's poem but so hard to do what he says (I think)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): It's an individual thing, I feel.
    Calvino Rabeni: :) zen
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): What I resist, you do not, etc.
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): It's difficult to befriend difficulty
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Lulu :)
    Calvino Rabeni: when is the last time anyone tried it ?
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Lulu
    Lulu Lacrima: Hi Ata!
    Lulu Lacrima: Hello Zen
    Dari (daryl.taov): ok folks, i m out for the night :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Lulu.
    Dari (daryl.taov): take care everybody
    Lulu Lacrima: I'm a bit laggy here
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Dari
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Take care, Dari :)
    Dari (daryl.taov): try not to do too much :)
    Lulu Lacrima: guess I'm about 53 minutes late?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Bye, Daryl. Thanks for coming.
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Lulu Lacrima: hehe
    Samúð (oo0oo): Bye dari, hello lulu
    Lulu Lacrima: hello o0000o
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Meditation guideline: "Return to what is already there and rest." (In other words, simply be with whatever is there -- no resistance to it.)
    Zen (zen.arado): yes I practice that with things in my life
    Zen (zen.arado): but it certainly ain't easy
    Calvino Rabeni: Another question is, what gets in the way, what happens when trying to welcome the unwanted guest? If it is possible to "do" that, how can it be done?
    Calvino Rabeni: in practice
    Lulu Lacrima: Bruce, Zen, I try very hard to Be...but it's difficult for me sometimes
    Be (be.ewing): :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Perhaps what gets in the way of the guest is even more important to accept than the guest himself/herself.
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): :)
    Be (be.ewing): try using Be as your name
    Be (be.ewing): it has some really interesting implications and responses :)
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Vel :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Does anyone have any cases to report of doing this?
    Lulu Lacrima: I'm a therapist in rl, and so I am All
    Lulu Lacrima: but I am None
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Hey, Velveta.
    Lulu Lacrima: I absorb
    Lulu Lacrima: and I dissipate
    Lulu Lacrima: but not fully
    Lulu Lacrima: there's the block
    Samúð (oo0oo): quality of relational journey to find edges, boundaries.. the boat to the other shore.. in out.. of our own experience, and that with 'others'
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Vel :)
    Be (be.ewing): Lulu - by absorb do you mean assimilate?
    Lulu Lacrima: no, empathize
    Lulu Lacrima: fully
    Be (be.ewing): understand -- thanks for clarifying
    Calvino Rabeni: I think a lot of what happens in meditation, is dissipating what was absorbed in experience but not fully accepted
    Lulu Lacrima: ok
    Calvino Rabeni: when one isn't like the finger moving through water, more like sand
    Lulu Lacrima: Calvino, you make sense to me about the meditation process....to dissipate
    Lulu Lacrima: but see, sometimes, depending on the person I work with, I am almost become that person
    Calvino Rabeni: the finger stirs the water, ... one sits, and after a while the leftover effects dissipate or settle
    Samúð (oo0oo): as mind rearranges... we could be patient and forgiving
    Lulu Lacrima: boundaries are difficult sometimes
    Calvino Rabeni: indeed
    Samúð (oo0oo): indeed the more intimate the boundaries
    Lulu Lacrima: that perhaps is where I find my difficulties
    Zen (zen.arado): meditation is the best place to allow things to come up I think
    Samúð (oo0oo): place?
    Zen (zen.arado): don't how else to put it
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): So, meditation is the ideal Guesthouse?
    Calvino Rabeni: :)
    Lulu Lacrima: but....if I weren't able to be intimate relative to those boundaries...perhaps I woldn't be able to do the job the way I see it should be done
    Lulu Lacrima: mmm
    Zen (zen.arado): best for practicing guesthouse skills?
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): yeppers.
    Lulu Lacrima: guesthouse for whom?
    Zen (zen.arado): we are the guesthouse
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Rumi's poem, Lulu. . . we've been discussing today.
    Lulu Lacrima: oh
    Calvino Rabeni: that's a fun connection, Bruce, thanks
    Lulu Lacrima: forgive me, haven't read the poem Bruce
    Lulu Lacrima: Rui
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Guest_House.html
    Lulu Lacrima: *Rumi
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): That's it :)
    Lulu Lacrima: ah
    Samúð (oo0oo): how to be homeless and a host
    Be (be.ewing): on a beach that is easy
    Zen (zen.arado): how to accept without resistance
    Zen (zen.arado): even thought resistance
    Lulu Lacrima: reminds me of a poem I wrote for a christmas gift to my friends...dunno if it's appropriate here, at this moment though
    Be (be.ewing): Lulu -- go for it
    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð perks up to hear
    Zen (zen.arado): try us :)
    Lulu Lacrima: actually, I wrote two, but here's the first:
    Lulu Lacrima: on christmas eve
     i had in mind a poem
     in which i wanted very much
     to thank you all
     you’ve touched my life
     being you
     having brought to me
     the gift of you
     how each of you
     becomes absorbed and
     one with me
     the personal experience of me.
     and present
     and to the future.
     absorption to the core of me
     contributes each
     in some important way
     to the genesis
     of Me.
     But on christmas eve,
     the poem that i wrote was bad,
     very bad,
     and it was late,
     and i was tired,
     so instead
     i wrote a note,
     my gift to you,
     my thanks to you,
     my gratitude.
     the gifts of you,
     and resplendent,
     old & new,
     lost & found,
     mature & young,
     and so to you,
     with thanks i say:
     i wish you joy,
     i wish you health,
     i wish you peace.
     i wish you love.
    Lulu Lacrima: and the second:
    Lulu Lacrima: all we leave behind us is compassion
     friends of old
     and friends renewed
     circled through.
     you all have touched me
     i thank you
     each for:
     each its mark
     exist in me,
     my memory,
     Lulu Lacrima (edited) Copyright May, 2007

    Lulu Lacrima: oops
    Zen (zen.arado): nice poems Lulu
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I like them, Lulu :)
    Lulu Lacrima: now you know my rl name
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Hi Druth :)
    Lulu Lacrima: thanks all
    Lulu Lacrima: I trust you all
    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð feels welcomed and cared for
    druth Vlodovic: hey guys
    Zen (zen.arado): Hi Druth
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): hey, druth.
    Be (be.ewing): that;'s beautiful
    Lulu Lacrima: but I feel that sense of connection that I think was intended in Rumi's poem?
    Calvino Rabeni: NOTE to the archivist - suggest striking the author's name
    Lulu Lacrima: thank you be
    Zen (zen.arado): that is an active expression
    Calvino Rabeni: Yes beautiful thanks
    Zen (zen.arado): important too
    Lulu Lacrima: thanks Calvino
    Lulu Lacrima: zen
    Lulu Lacrima: all
    Lulu Lacrima: Lulu Lacrima blushes
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): :)
    Samúð (oo0oo): :)
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): With that beautiful poem full of loving, I shall make my departure. Thanks, Lulu.
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): Thanks everyone.
    Bruce (bruce.mowbray): See you next week.
    Calvino Rabeni: Prayers are a more active state of mentation than what's typcally called "thinking"
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Be well, Bruce :)
    Zen (zen.arado): so...any topic ideas for next week?
    Lulu Lacrima: you're welcome Bruce...thanks for enjoying
    Be (be.ewing): Bruce and All -- take care :)
    Samúð (oo0oo): Be well Bruce!
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Bruce
    Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
    Calvino Rabeni: Take care Bruce
    Calvino Rabeni: How about "depth"
    Zen (zen.arado): ok can you add to that Cal?
    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð feels a charge
    Zen (zen.arado): depth vs shallowness i practice?
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): "Depth" is something we could talk about for months and only scratch the surface of :)
    Zen (zen.arado): :)
    Calvino Rabeni: hmmm, instead of focusing on a "content" idea, focus on the activity of reaching toward deeper insight or understanding
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah Atara
    Calvino Rabeni: but there's a good surface :)
    Zen (zen.arado): yeh ok
    Calvino Rabeni: sort of like asking ... how do you contemplate
    Calvino Rabeni: or direct attention?
    Lulu Lacrima: I like the idea of "why" do you contemplate
    Lulu Lacrima: ?
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): I might miss next week...but that sounds good :)
    Calvino Rabeni: so as not to stay on surfaces, or in an automatic habit
    Calvino Rabeni: Why seems good too
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Mm
    Zen (zen.arado): sounds good to me
    Lulu Lacrima: oh, I just saw you Druth, hello
    Samúð (oo0oo): Hiya Druth
    Violet (ataraxia.azemus): Well, I have to be going...be well, everyone :)
    druth Vlodovic: hi :)
    Lulu Lacrima: ciao bella Ata violette
    druth Vlodovic: and so long violet
    Samúð (oo0oo): Bye Atari
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Violet
    Lulu Lacrima: friends of new, I will be off for a bit, but I am pleased to have been able to rejoin the Kira Cafe for today
    Lulu Lacrima: thank you
    Lulu Lacrima: and thank you for letting me share
    Calvino Rabeni: Good to meet you too, Lulu
    Samúð (oo0oo): :) LuLu
    Zen (zen.arado): nice to meet you again Lulu
    Lulu Lacrima: ciao all *bisous*
    druth Vlodovic: seems I missed all the excitement
    Zen (zen.arado): yeh we calkmed down now :)
    druth Vlodovic: hopefully I'llbe on time another day :)
    druth Vlodovic: take care all
    Zen (zen.arado): bye Druth
    Zen (zen.arado): nice to sit and 'non do' :)
    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð sees plow.. turning soil.. gesture of movement and rolling crumbles.. innoculating some later contemplation, gone now, but cleared for view.. many things to appreciate... the cultivator, even before the plow a dream
    Samúð (oo0oo): [bye Druth]
    Zen (zen.arado): Zen thinks of a Seamus Heaney poem
    Samúð (oo0oo): the friendship between the soil, the blade and whatever perceives, lives on an edge that can never be seen
    Zen (zen.arado): but it was about cutting peat
    Zen (zen.arado): these meetings plowing us up
    Zen (zen.arado): making us receptive to new crops and growth
    Zen (zen.arado): (hopefully)
    Samúð (oo0oo): sorry to have mised the earlier parts, but glad i arrived for this great hospitality :)))) Thanks and fly well all.
    Arisia Vita: I too must fly...
    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð bows.  Gassho _/|\_
    Arisia Vita: great to see you all
    Zen (zen.arado): thanks for coming all
    Calvino Rabeni: Is it better to focus on one
    Calvino Rabeni: 's strengths or weaknesses?
    Zen (zen.arado): good question Cal
    Zen (zen.arado): my teacher broached that the other week
    Zen (zen.arado): and said the latter
    Zen (zen.arado): which surprised me
    Zen (zen.arado): there's a koan about polishing a tile and beating the wagon instead of the horse....
    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not suggesting choosing one OR the other, of course, both seem important, but for different reasons
    Zen (zen.arado): good topic we could discuss
    Calvino Rabeni: yeah
    Zen (zen.arado): I have to go
    Zen (zen.arado): take care

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