06.02.2011 - Sacredness

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    [02:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So we will be talking about this, something Atari raised last week.
    [02:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Ataraxia Azemus: ...the thread that really caught me was emphasizing the sacred in the moment, not as something separate
    [02:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: The links for the article and reports are on the wiki home page.
    [02:06 PM]  Pila Mulligan: are we having a sacred moment?
    [02:06 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think the experiment mentioned in the article is quite revealing ... I do feel that we experience something similar in our lives all the time.
    [02:06 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I was going to ask :)
    [02:06 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well, depends on the mind hey?
    [02:06 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
    [02:07 PM]  Pila Mulligan: does it?
    [02:07 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: To a degree I think so ...
    [02:07 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I'd agree, to a degree
    [02:07 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Maybe our willingness to let it in?
    [02:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I was thinking about it earlier this week...do we keep sacredness separate from the mundane so that it means more to us?
    [02:07 PM]  Pila Mulligan: or is the mundane sacred?
    [02:07 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Almost certainly Atari
    [02:08 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder if that's related to our assumed notion of sacredness being transcendent or separate.
    [02:08 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: It's like a wiccan's athame
    [02:08 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Same principle
    [02:08 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Zen :)
    [02:08 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Hi Zen :)
    [02:08 PM]  Pila Mulligan: hi Zen
    [02:08 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more Agatha?
    [02:08 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zen
    [02:08 PM]  Wol Euler: hello zen
    [02:09 PM]  Zen Arado: Hi all
    [02:09 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Well an athame (ritual knife) is not used for mundane purposes for that very reason
    [02:09 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: To preserve its ritual function
    [02:10 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It's a kind of expression to me ...
    [02:10 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: In the same way Tarot cards are not supposed to be handled by another person than the owner
    [02:10 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I've heard some teachers recommending not making a special place to practice etc. just to avoid this kind of setup.
    [02:10 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Yes
    [02:10 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: When we try to participate in something sacred...are we trying to draw that into our everyday lives or defending the lines around our everyday lives?
    [02:11 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Wouldn't you say life is sacred?
    [02:11 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Depends much on the person I'd guess
    [02:11 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes; and mundane :)
    [02:11 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We participate in all of the life ... and manifest the [put your word here].
    [02:12 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I think the idea is to raise up the median expereince -- we all have ups and downs all the time
    [02:12 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: It's similar to keeping SL apart from RL :p
    [02:12 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
    [02:12 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Actually I find the phrase 'mutually containing' quite helpful. For example it's not quite like form = emptiness & emptiness = form.
    [02:13 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: You mean harmonising Pila?
    [02:13 PM]  Pila Mulligan: not really ... what do you call the cetner line on a sine wave?
    [02:13 PM]  Pila Mulligan: the one things osciallate aoprund
    [02:14 PM]  Pila Mulligan: that's what I'm referring to -- raising that over time
    [02:14 PM]  Wol Euler: "median" perhaps
    [02:14 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
    [02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:14 PM]  Zen Arado: making things sacred is a way of becoming attached to forms surely?
    [02:14 PM]  Pila Mulligan: ups and downs happen
    [02:14 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Hi Sam :)
    [02:14 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Hello 0 :)
    [02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure if we are making something when there isn't there to begin with.
    [02:14 PM]  Zen Arado: Hi Sam :)
    [02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps we are seeing more of what we are.
    [02:15 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Sam :)
    [02:15 PM]  Pila Mulligan: hi Sam
    [02:15 PM]  Zen Arado: it is making them 'special' in some way
    [02:15 PM]  Zen Arado: instead of just helpful
    [02:15 PM]  oO0Oo Resident whispers: hi everyone... sorry to be llate.. don't let me interupt
    [02:15 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But making enemies are also special ... even categorising something as boring.
    [02:15 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: oh ... my grammar is going bad ... tired :(
    [02:16 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: That's what stuck out, in the article, for me...the way anything can be made sacred, and so that same...whatever you want to call it, can be seen in anything
    [02:16 PM]  Wol Euler nods.
    [02:16 PM]  Zen Arado: thre author had made his Zen practice something special
    [02:16 PM]  Pila Mulligan: the same sacredness
    [02:16 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, sacredness perhaps in that sense is just as equal to ordinariness.
    [02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: and it was narrowing him
    [02:17 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
    [02:17 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: extra-ordinary.. super-natural
    [02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: we can use any religion to close us us in instead of open us out
    [02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: if we think it is the 'Right' way
    [02:18 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
    [02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: they talk about killig the Buddha
    [02:19 PM]  Zen Arado: ot the Buddha is a dried **** stick
    [02:19 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel wonders if she should feel offended by this :P
    [02:19 PM]  Zen Arado: so you don't get to attached to the Buddha himself
    [02:19 PM]  Pila Mulligan wonders if Buddha is offended?
    [02:19 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know, no need to go that extreme ...
    [02:20 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I will ask him when I see him next :P
    [02:20 PM]  Zen Arado: sorry if that sounds offensive
    [02:20 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
    [02:20 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I was shocked by that the first time I heard both of those, but they make the same point well, I think
    [02:20 PM]  Ewan Bonham: grin
    [02:20 PM]  Zen Arado: I know some types of Buddhism do worship the Buddha to an extent
    [02:20 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That was a joke Zen :) When I first heard of that phrase, I must say I was shocked but then I understood what it meant.
    [02:21 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: lol snap Atari ...
    [02:21 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: hehe :)
    [02:21 PM]  Pila Mulligan: a lot such things are said in a moment when they are appropriate and then seem out of context when repeated
    [02:21 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Indeed ...
    [02:21 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Emphasis of the sacredness of each moment..
    [02:21 PM]  Zen Arado: it's like what you said about Trungpa Gaya
    [02:22 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I said something about Trungpa Rinpoche?
    [02:22 PM]  Zen Arado: he would completely change the forms they used if he thought people were getting too attached to them
    [02:22 PM]  Zen Arado: I read thet somewhere
    [02:23 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That sounds very good, yes ... we just get into habits anything we do so quickly.
    [02:23 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
    [02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: it comes back to becoming fixed
    [02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:23 PM]  Ewan Bonham: And focused in a mindful way..
    [02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: we seem to always want to put solid ground undr our feet
    [02:24 PM]  Zen Arado: start solidifying , fixating on things
    [02:24 PM]  Zen Arado: don't we?
    [02:24 PM]  Pila Mulligan: yes
    [02:24 PM]  Pila Mulligan: but things vibrate :)
    [02:25 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think there is somewhere we can ground ourselves but perhaps we are doing the opposite ...
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: but the rug will be pulled away again
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: and then we suffer
    [02:25 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: *vibrate*
    [02:25 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Maybe the rug was illusory to begin with
    [02:25 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Don't you think the rug wasn't there to begin with?
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: yes ...it was
    [02:25 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: heh
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
    [02:26 PM]  Wol Euler: perhaps we are just attached to standing up
    [02:26 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: 'There is no rug...'
    [02:26 PM]  Zen Arado: and we want something to stand on
    [02:26 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I mean rungs aren't going to cut it ...
    [02:26 PM]  Agatha Macbeth pictures one rug clapping
    [02:26 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: hehe
    [02:26 PM]  Wol Euler: :)
    [02:26 PM]  Ewan Bonham: smile
    [02:26 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:26 PM]  Zen Arado: it was a nce rug too......
    [02:26 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Aww
    [02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: remembers making a rug when I was a kid
    [02:27 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Wow
    [02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: and how proud I was
    [02:27 PM]  Wol Euler smiles.
    [02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: it had a butterfly on it too
    [02:27 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
    [02:27 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Nice
    [02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: pattern
    [02:27 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
    [02:28 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: The habit making pattern is really powerful ...
    [02:28 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: weaving every moment... woven weft
    [02:28 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think that experiment points to that.
    [02:28 PM]  Zen Arado: is that what Nisargadatta means when he says "After a few days of bantering back and forth about my attachment to being a monk, he said, “You are like a man holding a flashlight, trying to run beyond its beam. The view you are holding…is undermining your intent.”
    [02:29 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Hmmm...attachment to an 'outcome'..
    [02:29 PM]  Zen Arado: so we can't get anywhere unless we jettison the views that are holding us back?
    [02:29 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: I agree Zen
    [02:29 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We all hold views ... and it colours what we do whether it's formal practice or dealings in daily life.
    [02:30 PM]  Zen Arado: so what we have to do first is to see that
    [02:30 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Teachers often say how practices are dead things without right view.
    [02:30 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes see what we hold first ...
    [02:30 PM]  Zen Arado: yes Right View...hmmm
    [02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: aybe right view is no view
    [02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: or an open view
    [02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, that's also a view to practice and see in my opinion.
    [02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: that's my view
    [02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: What does open mean ... I still am not entirely clear.
    [02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
    [02:31 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Or a transient view..
    [02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... we change all the time.
    [02:31 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: To approach things with no expectations can be good
    [02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: lol I have a funny story ...
    [02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh that's open isn't it?
    [02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think so :)
    [02:32 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Let's hear it :)
    [02:32 PM]  oO0Oo Resident listens
    [02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: what Violet said
    [02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: mhm :)
    [02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: tell us Gaya
    [02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But it wouldn't stop me from asking Gilles to behave whenever I'm around :P
    [02:32 PM]  Agatha Macbeth grins
    [02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Not mutually exclusive ...
    [02:33 PM]  Wol Euler grins.
    [02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... I was at a sort of friends gathering.
    [02:33 PM]  Zen Arado: maybe he has a flashlight...
    [02:33 PM]  Zen Arado: listens
    [02:33 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Ahead of the bbeam..:))
    [02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: One of them was cracking a racist joke [on some East Asian].
    [02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I mean he has this deep seated resentment because of past historical events.
    [02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I joked at him that I'm from that area about.
    [02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: He said that I'm OK because he knows me :P
    [02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Not to solid after all, is it?
    [02:35 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Sounds sadly familiar Gaya
    [02:35 PM]  Pila Mulligan: a stereotypical prejudice ... liking 'the ones' you know
    [02:35 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh
    [02:35 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We have the capacity to be more accepting with friends.
    [02:35 PM]  Zen Arado: it's marvellously illogical
    [02:35 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: we are not each others rugs
    [02:35 PM]  Ewan Bonham: How does one get to know , when you are prejudice against getting to know?
    [02:35 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes marvellous, we all laughed so much :)
    [02:36 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Good question, Ewan...
    [02:36 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: He's passed away now ... I still fondly remember that day.
    [02:36 PM]  Zen Arado: was reading about that in 'Buddha's Brain' today
    [02:36 PM]  Pila Mulligan: a transition away from that kind of prejucide seems to be part of the trend of the past half century
    [02:36 PM]  Zen Arado: how when we lived in tribes it was advantageous to hate the neighbouring tribes
    [02:37 PM]  Zen Arado: so we still have that tendency
    [02:37 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It probably isn't that hard ... seeing one thing or another with same situation, people etc.
    [02:37 PM]  Pila Mulligan: herd wired, a sMaxine once said
    [02:37 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh good term
    [02:37 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: At times though it feels so difficult ...
    [02:37 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think attitudes probably go back and forth...but it's often a brave thing to take people as they are
    [02:38 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Certainly to take *some* people the way they are Atari :p
    [02:38 PM]  Ewan Bonham: perhaps it is tied into tking ALL things the way they are..:)
    [02:38 PM]  Pila Mulligan: things fluctuate (ups and downs, oscilate, vibrate, change ...)
    [02:38 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Well, taking people as they are doesn't mean you have to like everyone :)
    [02:38 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So in some ways, seeing something as special isn't really helpful.
    [02:38 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Sometimes with people, there is an added emotion...:)
    [02:38 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps that's why teachers always urge us to see everyone as Buddha.
    [02:38 PM]  Zen Arado: well we can see why we so easily slip into dislikke or hate
    [02:38 PM]  Zen Arado: it is wired into us
    [02:39 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But isn't emotion just like smoke?
    [02:39 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: It's easier to hate the far away and unknown
    [02:39 PM]  Zen Arado: as is behaving well to our own group
    [02:39 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:39 PM]  Pila Mulligan: hating is a political motivation
    [02:39 PM]  Zen Arado: that's what the man was doing with Gaya
    [02:39 PM]  Ewan Bonham: But don't people mistakenly put form to smoke?
    [02:40 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think rather he was able to see the funny side of his prejudice ...
    [02:40 PM]  Ewan Bonham: As if they thing it is permanent...and in form...:)
    [02:40 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That's why we all ended up laughing mad.
    [02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: so really we all have an avwersion to other races to an extent but most of us learn how to overcome it?
    [02:42 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I don't think so
    [02:42 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Smoke is a form ... rather we think it is solid and ever lasting maybe.
    [02:42 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I think we learn aversions
    [02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: or reinforce them
    [02:42 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Smoke gets in your eyes
    [02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
    [02:42 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I don't think we have a natural aversion, but it's easier to make boogeymen out of the unknown than the people around you
    [02:42 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: mhm
    [02:42 PM]  Ewan Bonham: I think aversion starts with a habit in thinking and perception
    [02:43 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Or some history unresolved ...
    [02:43 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
    [02:43 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we all need someone to blame
    [02:43 PM]  Pila Mulligan: just ponder the idea of race a second, is it really a very certain, fixed from of definition ... any more so than gender, say
    [02:43 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel points the finger at herself ... sorry about that.
    [02:43 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Do I hear a bike?
    [02:43 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Bleu :)
    [02:44 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
    [02:44 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yeah :p
    [02:44 PM]  Zen Arado: I used to teach lots of people from other parts of the world and was shocked at how much aversion I felt to some Arabic people
    [02:44 PM]  Wol Euler: practicing for the twelvth
    [02:44 PM]  Pila Mulligan: why did you have that aversion, Zen?
    [02:44 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: The unknown can be scary...until you get to know it
    [02:44 PM]  Pila Mulligan: can you say?
    [02:44 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: And struggling with the sim boundary it seems...
    [02:44 PM]  Zen Arado: and I think I am not prejudiced
    [02:45 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Same, I felt similar towards Black people [UK we say black and it's OK].
    [02:45 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Can we be biased and not prejudiced?
    [02:45 PM]  Zen Arado: I hope I have improved
    [02:45 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: me too ... hard to shed these conditions ...
    [02:45 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: :p
    [02:46 PM]  Pila Mulligan: Hawaii has probably the most thoroughly diverse population ethnicity of anywhere, and it is quite pleasant to expereince
    [02:46 PM]  Zen Arado: bias is just a weaker prejudice Ewan?
    [02:46 PM]  Pila Mulligan: but the jokes are frequent and aggressive
    [02:46 PM]  Ewan Bonham: perhaps..
    [02:46 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: After a while, it almost feels like an instinct. Scary this ...
    [02:46 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I do not think it is instinct
    [02:46 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Better do practising seeing Buddhas ...
    [02:46 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Exposure helps...if you've known a variety of people, you just see them that way
    [02:46 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Seeing Buddhas what?
    [02:47 PM]  Zen Arado: in N.Irland we haven't been exposed to so much ethnicity
    [02:47 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think my reactions came from the LA riot when I was in Korea.
    [02:47 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So when I came to UK and met black people for the first time, I was shocked to see how I was feeling inside.
    [02:47 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: You have enough trouble with the religious aspect there Zen :(
    [02:47 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Like a bit scared ...
    [02:47 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh that was the trouble
    [02:48 PM]  Pila Mulligan: scared
    [02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm...exposure hurts, too, when you have bad experiences with people
    [02:48 PM]  Zen Arado: it kept immigrants away
    [02:48 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: indeed ...
    [02:48 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think you raised a similar point before Atari.
    [02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: But that goes back to what Zen was saying, about keeping an open view
    [02:48 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That's a real challenge isn't it?
    [02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Letting go of the past exposures
    [02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
    [02:48 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Especially fears...which keep folks from really knowing each other.
    [02:49 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: A lot of emotions I think is rooted in fear.
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: I think I would see my reactions quicker now
    [02:49 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Funny how bias dispells when you just clear it for long enough to open to another..
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: and be able to stay with the fear
    [02:49 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: That's the trick Ewan :)
    [02:49 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It takes such commitment though Ewan ...
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:49 PM]  Ewan Bonham: ㋡
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: if you have a chance to get to know someone well
    [02:50 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I've seen the whole spectrum, from the segregated US South of my childhood to complete diversity where I live now -- for what it is worth I'd urge you to consider prejudice to be the much lesser state of things
    [02:50 PM]  Zen Arado: from a different culture
    [02:50 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I once withdrew simply because it wasn't really possible. I think we have to see where we are too, to be sensible.
    [02:50 PM]  Ewan Bonham: yes..
    [02:50 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Face the ego..
    [02:50 PM]  Zen Arado: SL helps us a lot with this
    [02:51 PM]  Ewan Bonham: nods..
    [02:51 PM]  Pila Mulligan: communication
    [02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: And also it doesn't ...
    [02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: I have never had a friend who was balck until I came to SL
    [02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: how do you mean Gaya?
    [02:51 PM]  Pila Mulligan: but O'Bama is Irish :)
    [02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes when we finally hear them or see them in person, we realise how much we've missing at the same time.
    [02:51 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I've never had a friend who was a giant spider until I came to SL :)
    [02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: of course :)
    [02:51 PM]  Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Pila
    [02:51 PM]  oO0Oo Resident nods.. more in common... than anything we imagine divides us Pila?
    [02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: People sometimes 'talk' differently in text it seems.
    [02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: seems all US presidents are Irish...
    [02:52 PM]  Ewan Bonham: grin..
    [02:52 PM]  Pila Mulligan: prejudice and hate are usually heavy burdens, it is much easier wihtut them
    [02:52 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: heh :)
    [02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: what a coincidence
    [02:52 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think there's a shock....but then we can begin to recognize things
    [02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: agreed Pila
    [02:52 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: curious about looking into 'shock'
    [02:53 PM]  Pila Mulligan: Marly: 'let's get together and be alright'
    [02:53 PM]  Zen Arado: yep
    [02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... they are painful to carry around.
    [02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Intefere with stuff I want to do ...
    [02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So why do we do this? lol
    [02:53 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Yes, like love one another..
    [02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes I seem to be doing the precise opposite of what's good for me. Do you find that?
    [02:54 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes! All the time...
    [02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: phew I'm not alone ... thanks :)
    [02:54 PM]  Zen Arado: but there was an evolutionary advantage in being suspicious of other tribes
    [02:54 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I usually do what's good for you, Gaya :)
    [02:54 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Sometimes I can slow down enough to ask myself, "Is this helping?"
    [02:54 PM]  Ewan Bonham: i do....again creature of thopught hjabits..
    [02:54 PM]  Zen Arado: is that still true?
    [02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well Pila, maybe when I'm at our age ... fingers crossed.
    [02:54 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: You'll never be alone Gaya :)
    [02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So ... I want to talk a bit about next week or the following weeks at this point.
    [02:55 PM]  Pila Mulligan: all one! (Dr BronneR)
    [02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure all of you are eager to discuss 'communication' sometime? ^.-
    [02:55 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: It seems that way :)
    [02:55 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Ah, communication
    [02:55 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: become friends with the underlying energies.. some intelligence operating with those in discerning ways.. vibrations perhaps
    [02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: heheh
    [02:56 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: communication .. yes :)
    [02:56 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I did give some thoughts about Aphrodite's suggestion but I'm not sure if we should implement an addtional measure or change the format.
    [02:56 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: However, I'm always up for an experiment too.
    [02:56 PM]  Pila Mulligan: what suggestion please?
    [02:57 PM]  Zen Arado: hwo do you mean?
    [02:57 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: As Dr Frankenstein said
    [02:57 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: She suggested we try out the retreat format on this.
    [02:57 PM]  Pila Mulligan: ? still not sur eI get it yet
    [02:57 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Like taking turn and speaking, just sharing when feels right etc.
    [02:57 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I feel though it may be somewhat static for people who're not used to that format.
    [02:58 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Maybe alternating formats would be good
    [02:58 PM]  Zen Arado: hmmmm
    [02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But it can help with situations where we have those who are somewhat dominating.
    [02:58 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
    [02:58 PM]  Zen Arado: you can lose the stimulus of others thoughts
    [02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: mhm
    [02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Shall we all go back and have a good think on this?
    [02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We don't have to decide soon or anything ...
    [02:59 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Does this group meet at this time weekly?
    [02:59 PM]  Zen Arado: were we going to have a discussion about NVC?
    [02:59 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes, Ewan
    [02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: At any rate, Eliza may organise something with Aphrodite over at PaB.
    [03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: If they do one on communication, they will let us know.
    [03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: NVC?
    [03:00 PM]  Zen Arado: or in oroginal face group?
    [03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... Eliza I think is talking to Aphrodite on that to do at PaB.
    [03:00 PM]  Zen Arado: non violent communicaton
    [03:00 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I had a topic idea, for a oroundtable session
    [03:00 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: NVC=Non Violent Communication
    [03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure beyond that.
    [03:00 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Nonviol...yes :)
    [03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Sure please go ahead Pila.
    [03:01 PM]  Pila Mulligan: 'what do oyu think is an important philosophical idea or subject'
    [03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean by 'philosophical' though?
    [03:01 PM]  Pila Mulligan: part of the question :)
    [03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
    [03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: And subject is?
    [03:01 PM]  Ewan Bonham: I am afraid I will have to go. I found this most interesting and will return...:)
    [03:01 PM]  Zen Arado: it is looking at the validity of philosophy?
    [03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Ewan :)
    [03:01 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Thank you, folks,...:)
    [03:01 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, Ewan :)
    [03:02 PM]  Zen Arado: bye Ewan
    [03:02 PM]  Pila Mulligan: bye
    [03:02 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: bye Ewan :)
    [03:02 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now ewan
    [03:02 PM]  Pila Mulligan must also leave, perhaps with apologies for it being a bit too early for having posed an idea
    [03:02 PM]  Pila Mulligan: ybe
    [03:02 PM]  Zen Arado: no
    [03:02 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, Pila :)
    [03:02 PM]  Zen Arado: thank you PIla
    [03:02 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: OK we can continue in email ... let's poke Pila there.
    [03:02 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Not at all Pila, and ty
    [03:03 PM]  Zen Arado: ok
    [03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So let's get Pila to formulate one for us then?
    [03:03 PM]  Agatha Macbeth smiles
    [03:03 PM]  Wol Euler: bye pila, take care
    [03:03 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: cool
    [03:03 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: bye Pila ntsy :)
    [03:03 PM]  Zen Arado: maybe a bit narrower?
    [03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... we can talk about whether practice includes 'philosophical' training.
    [03:04 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I like the broadness....it might be interesting to see what people bring to that, at first
    [03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: contemplative practice
    [03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh okk ..shrugs
    [03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: (see how open I am ) :)
    [03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think Pila may have more ideas :)
    [03:04 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think it'll get narrowed down as a natural course :)
    [03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: true
    [03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Then maybe broaded again ...
    [03:05 PM]  Zen Arado: my flashlight will narrow it :)
    [03:05 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks everyone, look forward to continue discussing in the email group :)
    [03:05 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: lol...yes; expanding and contracting....we'll breathe life into it :)
    [03:05 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [03:05 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: :))
    [03:05 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Inhale...exhale
    [03:06 PM]  Zen Arado: ty for discussion
    [03:06 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: BFN folks, have fun
    [03:06 PM]  Zen Arado: bye all
    [03:06 PM]  Wol Euler: goodnight, all, time for me to leave too
    [03:06 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: bye All thanks very much
    [03:06 PM]  Wol Euler: take care
    [03:06 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Take care everyone :)
    [03:06 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: :)

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