06.02.2011 - Sacredness

[02:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So we will be talking about this, something Atari raised last week.
[02:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Ataraxia Azemus: ...the thread that really caught me was emphasizing the sacred in the moment, not as something separate
[02:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: The links for the article and reports are on the wiki home page.
[02:06 PM]  Pila Mulligan: are we having a sacred moment?
[02:06 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think the experiment mentioned in the article is quite revealing ... I do feel that we experience something similar in our lives all the time.
[02:06 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I was going to ask :)
[02:06 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well, depends on the mind hey?
[02:06 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
[02:07 PM]  Pila Mulligan: does it?
[02:07 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: To a degree I think so ...
[02:07 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I'd agree, to a degree
[02:07 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Maybe our willingness to let it in?
[02:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I was thinking about it earlier this week...do we keep sacredness separate from the mundane so that it means more to us?
[02:07 PM]  Pila Mulligan: or is the mundane sacred?
[02:07 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Almost certainly Atari
[02:08 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I wonder if that's related to our assumed notion of sacredness being transcendent or separate.
[02:08 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: It's like a wiccan's athame
[02:08 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Same principle
[02:08 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Zen :)
[02:08 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Hi Zen :)
[02:08 PM]  Pila Mulligan: hi Zen
[02:08 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Please say more Agatha?
[02:08 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Hi Zen
[02:08 PM]  Wol Euler: hello zen
[02:09 PM]  Zen Arado: Hi all
[02:09 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Well an athame (ritual knife) is not used for mundane purposes for that very reason
[02:09 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: To preserve its ritual function
[02:10 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It's a kind of expression to me ...
[02:10 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: In the same way Tarot cards are not supposed to be handled by another person than the owner
[02:10 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I've heard some teachers recommending not making a special place to practice etc. just to avoid this kind of setup.
[02:10 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Yes
[02:10 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: When we try to participate in something sacred...are we trying to draw that into our everyday lives or defending the lines around our everyday lives?
[02:11 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Wouldn't you say life is sacred?
[02:11 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Depends much on the person I'd guess
[02:11 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes; and mundane :)
[02:11 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We participate in all of the life ... and manifest the [put your word here].
[02:12 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I think the idea is to raise up the median expereince -- we all have ups and downs all the time
[02:12 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: It's similar to keeping SL apart from RL :p
[02:12 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
[02:12 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Actually I find the phrase 'mutually containing' quite helpful. For example it's not quite like form = emptiness & emptiness = form.
[02:13 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: You mean harmonising Pila?
[02:13 PM]  Pila Mulligan: not really ... what do you call the cetner line on a sine wave?
[02:13 PM]  Pila Mulligan: the one things osciallate aoprund
[02:14 PM]  Pila Mulligan: that's what I'm referring to -- raising that over time
[02:14 PM]  Wol Euler: "median" perhaps
[02:14 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
[02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
[02:14 PM]  Zen Arado: making things sacred is a way of becoming attached to forms surely?
[02:14 PM]  Pila Mulligan: ups and downs happen
[02:14 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Hi Sam :)
[02:14 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Hello 0 :)
[02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure if we are making something when there isn't there to begin with.
[02:14 PM]  Zen Arado: Hi Sam :)
[02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps we are seeing more of what we are.
[02:15 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Sam :)
[02:15 PM]  Pila Mulligan: hi Sam
[02:15 PM]  Zen Arado: it is making them 'special' in some way
[02:15 PM]  Zen Arado: instead of just helpful
[02:15 PM]  oO0Oo Resident whispers: hi everyone... sorry to be llate.. don't let me interupt
[02:15 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But making enemies are also special ... even categorising something as boring.
[02:15 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: oh ... my grammar is going bad ... tired :(
[02:16 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: That's what stuck out, in the article, for me...the way anything can be made sacred, and so that same...whatever you want to call it, can be seen in anything
[02:16 PM]  Wol Euler nods.
[02:16 PM]  Zen Arado: thre author had made his Zen practice something special
[02:16 PM]  Pila Mulligan: the same sacredness
[02:16 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, sacredness perhaps in that sense is just as equal to ordinariness.
[02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: and it was narrowing him
[02:17 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
[02:17 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: extra-ordinary.. super-natural
[02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: we can use any religion to close us us in instead of open us out
[02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: if we think it is the 'Right' way
[02:18 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
[02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: they talk about killig the Buddha
[02:19 PM]  Zen Arado: ot the Buddha is a dried **** stick
[02:19 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel wonders if she should feel offended by this :P
[02:19 PM]  Zen Arado: so you don't get to attached to the Buddha himself
[02:19 PM]  Pila Mulligan wonders if Buddha is offended?
[02:19 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know, no need to go that extreme ...
[02:20 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I will ask him when I see him next :P
[02:20 PM]  Zen Arado: sorry if that sounds offensive
[02:20 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
[02:20 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I was shocked by that the first time I heard both of those, but they make the same point well, I think
[02:20 PM]  Ewan Bonham: grin
[02:20 PM]  Zen Arado: I know some types of Buddhism do worship the Buddha to an extent
[02:20 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That was a joke Zen :) When I first heard of that phrase, I must say I was shocked but then I understood what it meant.
[02:21 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: lol snap Atari ...
[02:21 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: hehe :)
[02:21 PM]  Pila Mulligan: a lot such things are said in a moment when they are appropriate and then seem out of context when repeated
[02:21 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Indeed ...
[02:21 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Emphasis of the sacredness of each moment..
[02:21 PM]  Zen Arado: it's like what you said about Trungpa Gaya
[02:22 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I said something about Trungpa Rinpoche?
[02:22 PM]  Zen Arado: he would completely change the forms they used if he thought people were getting too attached to them
[02:22 PM]  Zen Arado: I read thet somewhere
[02:23 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That sounds very good, yes ... we just get into habits anything we do so quickly.
[02:23 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok :)
[02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: it comes back to becoming fixed
[02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
[02:23 PM]  Ewan Bonham: And focused in a mindful way..
[02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: we seem to always want to put solid ground undr our feet
[02:24 PM]  Zen Arado: start solidifying , fixating on things
[02:24 PM]  Zen Arado: don't we?
[02:24 PM]  Pila Mulligan: yes
[02:24 PM]  Pila Mulligan: but things vibrate :)
[02:25 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think there is somewhere we can ground ourselves but perhaps we are doing the opposite ...
[02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: but the rug will be pulled away again
[02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: and then we suffer
[02:25 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: *vibrate*
[02:25 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Maybe the rug was illusory to begin with
[02:25 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Don't you think the rug wasn't there to begin with?
[02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: yes ...it was
[02:25 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: heh
[02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
[02:26 PM]  Wol Euler: perhaps we are just attached to standing up
[02:26 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: 'There is no rug...'
[02:26 PM]  Zen Arado: and we want something to stand on
[02:26 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I mean rungs aren't going to cut it ...
[02:26 PM]  Agatha Macbeth pictures one rug clapping
[02:26 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: hehe
[02:26 PM]  Wol Euler: :)
[02:26 PM]  Ewan Bonham: smile
[02:26 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
[02:26 PM]  Zen Arado: it was a nce rug too......
[02:26 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Aww
[02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: remembers making a rug when I was a kid
[02:27 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Wow
[02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: and how proud I was
[02:27 PM]  Wol Euler smiles.
[02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: it had a butterfly on it too
[02:27 PM]  Pila Mulligan: :)
[02:27 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Nice
[02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: pattern
[02:27 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
[02:28 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: The habit making pattern is really powerful ...
[02:28 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: weaving every moment... woven weft
[02:28 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think that experiment points to that.
[02:28 PM]  Zen Arado: is that what Nisargadatta means when he says "After a few days of bantering back and forth about my attachment to being a monk, he said, “You are like a man holding a flashlight, trying to run beyond its beam. The view you are holding…is undermining your intent.”
[02:29 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Hmmm...attachment to an 'outcome'..
[02:29 PM]  Zen Arado: so we can't get anywhere unless we jettison the views that are holding us back?
[02:29 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: I agree Zen
[02:29 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We all hold views ... and it colours what we do whether it's formal practice or dealings in daily life.
[02:30 PM]  Zen Arado: so what we have to do first is to see that
[02:30 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Teachers often say how practices are dead things without right view.
[02:30 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes see what we hold first ...
[02:30 PM]  Zen Arado: yes Right View...hmmm
[02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: aybe right view is no view
[02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: or an open view
[02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, that's also a view to practice and see in my opinion.
[02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: that's my view
[02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: What does open mean ... I still am not entirely clear.
[02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
[02:31 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Or a transient view..
[02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... we change all the time.
[02:31 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: To approach things with no expectations can be good
[02:31 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: lol I have a funny story ...
[02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh that's open isn't it?
[02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think so :)
[02:32 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Let's hear it :)
[02:32 PM]  oO0Oo Resident listens
[02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: what Violet said
[02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: mhm :)
[02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: tell us Gaya
[02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But it wouldn't stop me from asking Gilles to behave whenever I'm around :P
[02:32 PM]  Agatha Macbeth grins
[02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Not mutually exclusive ...
[02:33 PM]  Wol Euler grins.
[02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... I was at a sort of friends gathering.
[02:33 PM]  Zen Arado: maybe he has a flashlight...
[02:33 PM]  Zen Arado: listens
[02:33 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Ahead of the bbeam..:))
[02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: One of them was cracking a racist joke [on some East Asian].
[02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I mean he has this deep seated resentment because of past historical events.
[02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I joked at him that I'm from that area about.
[02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: He said that I'm OK because he knows me :P
[02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Not to solid after all, is it?
[02:35 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Sounds sadly familiar Gaya
[02:35 PM]  Pila Mulligan: a stereotypical prejudice ... liking 'the ones' you know
[02:35 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh
[02:35 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We have the capacity to be more accepting with friends.
[02:35 PM]  Zen Arado: it's marvellously illogical
[02:35 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: we are not each others rugs
[02:35 PM]  Ewan Bonham: How does one get to know , when you are prejudice against getting to know?
[02:35 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes marvellous, we all laughed so much :)
[02:36 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Good question, Ewan...
[02:36 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: He's passed away now ... I still fondly remember that day.
[02:36 PM]  Zen Arado: was reading about that in 'Buddha's Brain' today
[02:36 PM]  Pila Mulligan: a transition away from that kind of prejucide seems to be part of the trend of the past half century
[02:36 PM]  Zen Arado: how when we lived in tribes it was advantageous to hate the neighbouring tribes
[02:37 PM]  Zen Arado: so we still have that tendency
[02:37 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It probably isn't that hard ... seeing one thing or another with same situation, people etc.
[02:37 PM]  Pila Mulligan: herd wired, a sMaxine once said
[02:37 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh good term
[02:37 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: At times though it feels so difficult ...
[02:37 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think attitudes probably go back and forth...but it's often a brave thing to take people as they are
[02:38 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Certainly to take *some* people the way they are Atari :p
[02:38 PM]  Ewan Bonham: perhaps it is tied into tking ALL things the way they are..:)
[02:38 PM]  Pila Mulligan: things fluctuate (ups and downs, oscilate, vibrate, change ...)
[02:38 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Well, taking people as they are doesn't mean you have to like everyone :)
[02:38 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So in some ways, seeing something as special isn't really helpful.
[02:38 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Sometimes with people, there is an added emotion...:)
[02:38 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps that's why teachers always urge us to see everyone as Buddha.
[02:38 PM]  Zen Arado: well we can see why we so easily slip into dislikke or hate
[02:38 PM]  Zen Arado: it is wired into us
[02:39 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But isn't emotion just like smoke?
[02:39 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: It's easier to hate the far away and unknown
[02:39 PM]  Zen Arado: as is behaving well to our own group
[02:39 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
[02:39 PM]  Pila Mulligan: hating is a political motivation
[02:39 PM]  Zen Arado: that's what the man was doing with Gaya
[02:39 PM]  Ewan Bonham: But don't people mistakenly put form to smoke?
[02:40 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think rather he was able to see the funny side of his prejudice ...
[02:40 PM]  Ewan Bonham: As if they thing it is permanent...and in form...:)
[02:40 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That's why we all ended up laughing mad.
[02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: so really we all have an avwersion to other races to an extent but most of us learn how to overcome it?
[02:42 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I don't think so
[02:42 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Smoke is a form ... rather we think it is solid and ever lasting maybe.
[02:42 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I think we learn aversions
[02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: or reinforce them
[02:42 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Smoke gets in your eyes
[02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
[02:42 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I don't think we have a natural aversion, but it's easier to make boogeymen out of the unknown than the people around you
[02:42 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: mhm
[02:42 PM]  Ewan Bonham: I think aversion starts with a habit in thinking and perception
[02:43 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Or some history unresolved ...
[02:43 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
[02:43 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Maybe we all need someone to blame
[02:43 PM]  Pila Mulligan: just ponder the idea of race a second, is it really a very certain, fixed from of definition ... any more so than gender, say
[02:43 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel points the finger at herself ... sorry about that.
[02:43 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Do I hear a bike?
[02:43 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Bleu :)
[02:44 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Whoa
[02:44 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yeah :p
[02:44 PM]  Zen Arado: I used to teach lots of people from other parts of the world and was shocked at how much aversion I felt to some Arabic people
[02:44 PM]  Wol Euler: practicing for the twelvth
[02:44 PM]  Pila Mulligan: why did you have that aversion, Zen?
[02:44 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: The unknown can be scary...until you get to know it
[02:44 PM]  Pila Mulligan: can you say?
[02:44 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: And struggling with the sim boundary it seems...
[02:44 PM]  Zen Arado: and I think I am not prejudiced
[02:45 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Same, I felt similar towards Black people [UK we say black and it's OK].
[02:45 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Can we be biased and not prejudiced?
[02:45 PM]  Zen Arado: I hope I have improved
[02:45 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: me too ... hard to shed these conditions ...
[02:45 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: :p
[02:46 PM]  Pila Mulligan: Hawaii has probably the most thoroughly diverse population ethnicity of anywhere, and it is quite pleasant to expereince
[02:46 PM]  Zen Arado: bias is just a weaker prejudice Ewan?
[02:46 PM]  Pila Mulligan: but the jokes are frequent and aggressive
[02:46 PM]  Ewan Bonham: perhaps..
[02:46 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: After a while, it almost feels like an instinct. Scary this ...
[02:46 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I do not think it is instinct
[02:46 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Better do practising seeing Buddhas ...
[02:46 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Exposure helps...if you've known a variety of people, you just see them that way
[02:46 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Seeing Buddhas what?
[02:47 PM]  Zen Arado: in N.Irland we haven't been exposed to so much ethnicity
[02:47 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think my reactions came from the LA riot when I was in Korea.
[02:47 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So when I came to UK and met black people for the first time, I was shocked to see how I was feeling inside.
[02:47 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: You have enough trouble with the religious aspect there Zen :(
[02:47 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Like a bit scared ...
[02:47 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh that was the trouble
[02:48 PM]  Pila Mulligan: scared
[02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm...exposure hurts, too, when you have bad experiences with people
[02:48 PM]  Zen Arado: it kept immigrants away
[02:48 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: indeed ...
[02:48 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think you raised a similar point before Atari.
[02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: But that goes back to what Zen was saying, about keeping an open view
[02:48 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: That's a real challenge isn't it?
[02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Letting go of the past exposures
[02:48 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
[02:48 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Especially fears...which keep folks from really knowing each other.
[02:49 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: A lot of emotions I think is rooted in fear.
[02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: I think I would see my reactions quicker now
[02:49 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Funny how bias dispells when you just clear it for long enough to open to another..
[02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: and be able to stay with the fear
[02:49 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: That's the trick Ewan :)
[02:49 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It takes such commitment though Ewan ...
[02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
[02:49 PM]  Ewan Bonham: ㋡
[02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: if you have a chance to get to know someone well
[02:50 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I've seen the whole spectrum, from the segregated US South of my childhood to complete diversity where I live now -- for what it is worth I'd urge you to consider prejudice to be the much lesser state of things
[02:50 PM]  Zen Arado: from a different culture
[02:50 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I once withdrew simply because it wasn't really possible. I think we have to see where we are too, to be sensible.
[02:50 PM]  Ewan Bonham: yes..
[02:50 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Face the ego..
[02:50 PM]  Zen Arado: SL helps us a lot with this
[02:51 PM]  Ewan Bonham: nods..
[02:51 PM]  Pila Mulligan: communication
[02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: And also it doesn't ...
[02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: I have never had a friend who was balck until I came to SL
[02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: how do you mean Gaya?
[02:51 PM]  Pila Mulligan: but O'Bama is Irish :)
[02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes when we finally hear them or see them in person, we realise how much we've missing at the same time.
[02:51 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I've never had a friend who was a giant spider until I came to SL :)
[02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: of course :)
[02:51 PM]  Agatha Macbeth smiles @ Pila
[02:51 PM]  oO0Oo Resident nods.. more in common... than anything we imagine divides us Pila?
[02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: People sometimes 'talk' differently in text it seems.
[02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: seems all US presidents are Irish...
[02:52 PM]  Ewan Bonham: grin..
[02:52 PM]  Pila Mulligan: prejudice and hate are usually heavy burdens, it is much easier wihtut them
[02:52 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: heh :)
[02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: what a coincidence
[02:52 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think there's a shock....but then we can begin to recognize things
[02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: agreed Pila
[02:52 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: curious about looking into 'shock'
[02:53 PM]  Pila Mulligan: Marly: 'let's get together and be alright'
[02:53 PM]  Zen Arado: yep
[02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... they are painful to carry around.
[02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Intefere with stuff I want to do ...
[02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So why do we do this? lol
[02:53 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Yes, like love one another..
[02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Sometimes I seem to be doing the precise opposite of what's good for me. Do you find that?
[02:54 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes! All the time...
[02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: phew I'm not alone ... thanks :)
[02:54 PM]  Zen Arado: but there was an evolutionary advantage in being suspicious of other tribes
[02:54 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I usually do what's good for you, Gaya :)
[02:54 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Sometimes I can slow down enough to ask myself, "Is this helping?"
[02:54 PM]  Ewan Bonham: i do....again creature of thopught hjabits..
[02:54 PM]  Zen Arado: is that still true?
[02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well Pila, maybe when I'm at our age ... fingers crossed.
[02:54 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: You'll never be alone Gaya :)
[02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
[02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So ... I want to talk a bit about next week or the following weeks at this point.
[02:55 PM]  Pila Mulligan: all one! (Dr BronneR)
[02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure all of you are eager to discuss 'communication' sometime? ^.-
[02:55 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: It seems that way :)
[02:55 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Ah, communication
[02:55 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: become friends with the underlying energies.. some intelligence operating with those in discerning ways.. vibrations perhaps
[02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: heheh
[02:56 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: communication .. yes :)
[02:56 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I did give some thoughts about Aphrodite's suggestion but I'm not sure if we should implement an addtional measure or change the format.
[02:56 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: However, I'm always up for an experiment too.
[02:56 PM]  Pila Mulligan: what suggestion please?
[02:57 PM]  Zen Arado: hwo do you mean?
[02:57 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: As Dr Frankenstein said
[02:57 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: She suggested we try out the retreat format on this.
[02:57 PM]  Pila Mulligan: ? still not sur eI get it yet
[02:57 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Like taking turn and speaking, just sharing when feels right etc.
[02:57 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I feel though it may be somewhat static for people who're not used to that format.
[02:58 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Maybe alternating formats would be good
[02:58 PM]  Zen Arado: hmmmm
[02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: But it can help with situations where we have those who are somewhat dominating.
[02:58 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mm
[02:58 PM]  Zen Arado: you can lose the stimulus of others thoughts
[02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: mhm
[02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Shall we all go back and have a good think on this?
[02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: We don't have to decide soon or anything ...
[02:59 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Does this group meet at this time weekly?
[02:59 PM]  Zen Arado: were we going to have a discussion about NVC?
[02:59 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes, Ewan
[02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: At any rate, Eliza may organise something with Aphrodite over at PaB.
[03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: If they do one on communication, they will let us know.
[03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: NVC?
[03:00 PM]  Zen Arado: or in oroginal face group?
[03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... Eliza I think is talking to Aphrodite on that to do at PaB.
[03:00 PM]  Zen Arado: non violent communicaton
[03:00 PM]  Pila Mulligan: I had a topic idea, for a oroundtable session
[03:00 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: NVC=Non Violent Communication
[03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure beyond that.
[03:00 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Nonviol...yes :)
[03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Sure please go ahead Pila.
[03:01 PM]  Pila Mulligan: 'what do oyu think is an important philosophical idea or subject'
[03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: What do you mean by 'philosophical' though?
[03:01 PM]  Pila Mulligan: part of the question :)
[03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: ah :)
[03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: And subject is?
[03:01 PM]  Ewan Bonham: I am afraid I will have to go. I found this most interesting and will return...:)
[03:01 PM]  Zen Arado: it is looking at the validity of philosophy?
[03:01 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Ewan :)
[03:01 PM]  Ewan Bonham: Thank you, folks,...:)
[03:01 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, Ewan :)
[03:02 PM]  Zen Arado: bye Ewan
[03:02 PM]  Pila Mulligan: bye
[03:02 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: bye Ewan :)
[03:02 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Bye for now ewan
[03:02 PM]  Pila Mulligan must also leave, perhaps with apologies for it being a bit too early for having posed an idea
[03:02 PM]  Pila Mulligan: ybe
[03:02 PM]  Zen Arado: no
[03:02 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Take care, Pila :)
[03:02 PM]  Zen Arado: thank you PIla
[03:02 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: OK we can continue in email ... let's poke Pila there.
[03:02 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Not at all Pila, and ty
[03:03 PM]  Zen Arado: ok
[03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So let's get Pila to formulate one for us then?
[03:03 PM]  Agatha Macbeth smiles
[03:03 PM]  Wol Euler: bye pila, take care
[03:03 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
[03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: cool
[03:03 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: bye Pila ntsy :)
[03:03 PM]  Zen Arado: maybe a bit narrower?
[03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... we can talk about whether practice includes 'philosophical' training.
[03:04 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I like the broadness....it might be interesting to see what people bring to that, at first
[03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: contemplative practice
[03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh okk ..shrugs
[03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: (see how open I am ) :)
[03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I think Pila may have more ideas :)
[03:04 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think it'll get narrowed down as a natural course :)
[03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: true
[03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Then maybe broaded again ...
[03:05 PM]  Zen Arado: my flashlight will narrow it :)
[03:05 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks everyone, look forward to continue discussing in the email group :)
[03:05 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: lol...yes; expanding and contracting....we'll breathe life into it :)
[03:05 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
[03:05 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: :))
[03:05 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: Inhale...exhale
[03:06 PM]  Zen Arado: ty for discussion
[03:06 PM]  Agatha Macbeth: BFN folks, have fun
[03:06 PM]  Zen Arado: bye all
[03:06 PM]  Wol Euler: goodnight, all, time for me to leave too
[03:06 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: bye All thanks very much
[03:06 PM]  Wol Euler: take care
[03:06 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Take care everyone :)
[03:06 PM]  oO0Oo Resident: :)