Report 27

 Stim: any questions you have about the topic of codependent arising and its application to life should be articulated and stated, so I can try to address them.

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Although I've encountered the co-dependent arising topic before, I've generally avoided it (too confusing, etc).  In the few weeks here, however, I've noticed shifts and changes in the way I consider various related issues, which I credit to the openness of the discussion and reports and all the new perspectives that brings.  Just wanted to thank everyone for this! 

Also, feel free to skip my meanderings below -- would rather to hear more about questions others have raised (some of mine are overlapping anyway)...

*)  This is a question I've been carrying around for a while and I feel a little embarrassed about it -- embarrassed because the question does not seem to arise when I'm more in the flow of things, but more when I'm thinking... Well, here it is:  Are things like emptiness, big compassion, no distance, Indra's net, everything is everything, suchness and other intuitions along those lines -- are these also subject to the critique of codependent arising?  I can see that an intuition as a human intuition is subject to co-dependent arising in the sense that we are (I am) so good at turning everything into a framing, an object/experience held by a self, etc.  But it feels like there's a way of knowing (direct insight?) which is not dependent on our ordinary mind and structuring and I'm just wondering if at some point if it's going to be possible also to see that there is a subtle level of framing involved even in the knowing that is free of ordinary mind structures, or if what's really happening is that I've created an artificial divide between "ordinary" and "real knowing" (at times it certainly seems evident that real knowing is inseparable from ordinary knowing though the other direction is a lot harder for me (that ordinary knowing is real knowing)).

*)  On the "how this relates to my life" side of the question:  A few mornings ago while I was sitting, it was possible to feel the distance that ordinary notions of compassion can create -- I'm over here, and I'm going to help this thing/thought/object that's way way WAY out there.  The distance felt so great that the thing out there seemed unknowable and maybe even gone, and then the distance felt gone/empty -- it was not an unpleasant feeling, but it was weird!  So the question is, I guess when I'm considering co-dependent arising in the context of things I don't like to begin with (feeling threatened, angry, clingy) I'm happy to find ways to let go.  But when co-dependent arising comes up for things I consider good or useful, I'm not sure what I mean by "letting go" anymore.  I still find maneuvers like reminders of kindness or generosity (toward myself and others) very helpful in my day to day life, when I'm angry or upset; I guess the key is just recognizing that these maneuvers can also be dropped in favor of something more direct.  Are there more pointers to consider here?  (I think this is part of a general question about how far to push or rely on conceptual gestures like "remember that no-time is also a possibility" -- co-dependent arising as a philosophy seems to suggest we can push them quite far). 

*)  It feels like there are at least three levels at which co-dependent arising can operate:  1) on the personal level (Is this story really true about me/the situation?  Does this personal historical fact really mean XXX about my limitations or capabilities?).  2) on a "how humans think" level (Is it really necessary to always frame the world in terms of me, object/goal, action?  Is linear time a concept or a reality and what does that mean for the way I "do" things?)  3)  a pointing to the understanding that being is not dependent on framings, actions, self, goals and so on, and that this understanding can become a lived fact.  Er, so what's the question here?  First, just want to check that I'm not leaving out something crucial.  Second, I find all three perspectives very valuable but also at times frustrating from a practical / lived pov -- it's part of the reason why it felt necessary to invoke a notion of no effort (Pila's description of wu wei is so lovely!).  I'm just enjoying and hoping for more advice along these lines, I guess!