2009.12.17 - Workshop 38

The following is a transcript of the workshop of 17th December 2009.

Stim Morane: OK, I guess we should start ...
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Calvino
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello all
Wester Kiranov: hi cal
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Calvino
Aurora Kitaj: Wester, such a long time
Aurora Kitaj: great to see you
Mickorod Renard: I was thinking same thing about seeing you Aurora
Aurora Kitaj: smiles
Stim Morane: :)
Pila Mulligan: sorry, had to re-log :) hello
Wester Kiranov: I sort of forgot about this one. and good to see you too aurora
Gaya Ethaniel: wb :)
Aurora Kitaj: likewise Mick
Stim Morane: So how are you all doing with the emphasis I suggested in the past two weeks? I.e., "aliveness", seeing yourselves as living beings?
Stim Morane: This basically means, how are doing with the homework exercise I suggested?
Eliza Madrigal: OK :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Good, ongoing :)
Wester Kiranov: sounds like I should try it ;)
Stim Morane: well, it's up to each of you, obviously. :)
Stim Morane: Questions?
Calvino Rabeni: I did the exercise, found them fertile
Eliza Madrigal: fertile is an interesting term, nods :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello arabella :)
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
arabella Ella: hiya!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wester Kiranov: hi ara
Gaya Ethaniel: I'd be interested to see if I manage to sit through 2 hrs again + second writing part.
Calvino Rabeni: By fertile I meant, something keeps on happeing with it for a few days
Gaya Ethaniel: Too early for specific questions yet ... :)
Stim Morane: I see, Calvino
Stim Morane: OK, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: I saw something perhaps relating to Dao's report though more often.
Eliza Madrigal: (Pila is having a little trouble)
Gaya Ethaniel nods ... :(
Stim Morane: Gaya, would you like to comment more about the similarity?
Gaya Ethaniel: Thoughts manifesting physically, almost like chiken/egg situations at times ... I think boundaries between mental/physical are becoming harder to see.
Stim Morane: I see. Good
Stim Morane: That is an important issue for me
Stim Morane: I doubt we can do too much with it here, but it is crucial to meditation practice, for instance.
Stim Morane: More importantly for our present purposes, it helps deal with the suffering mind, runaway feelings, etc.
Stim Morane: It also makes it more possible for us to be more receptive ...
Stim Morane: Pila will recognize this as one of the key points of Taoism, viz., to bring body, energy and mind together.
Stim Morane: We are not really broken into pieces, after all. We just keep disintegrating ... unnecessarily.
Stim Morane: But the important thing here is to make the shift, not so much to merely talk about it without undergoing the shift.
Calvino Rabeni: Gathering practice then?
Stim Morane: You mean, a practice that gathers the pieces together, Calvino?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Could you expand on 'to bring body, energy and mind together.' a bit more?
Stim Morane: Yes, quite right
Stim Morane: Oh, Gaya ... you expressed it well
Gaya Ethaniel: eh?
Mickorod Renard: and,,is it so bad to go through these cycles?
Gaya Ethaniel: So just seeing it more you mean?
Calvino Rabeni: No mick
Stim Morane: we can't do much as long as the mind really seems to be unconnected to our energy and physicality
Stim Morane: I teach many practices that could help bring these aspects of our existence together, gathering as Calvino puts it.
Stim Morane: But most of them are potentially risky too ...
Stim Morane: so the trick is to find something simple and safe
Calvino Rabeni: the 9-second pause is pretty safe
Stim Morane: yes, it's safe.
Stim Morane: Do you find that it addresses the issue we're discussing now?
Calvino Rabeni: I find that true stim
Stim Morane: Good, whatever helps.
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Stim Morane: Anyway, there may not be much to say ... my interest is normally, in RL discussions, to help people find their lives in a new way that is at the same time, more true, not constructed.
Stim Morane: As for what fits here in SL discussions, I'm still learning.
Stim Morane: If any of you have discussion points or questions, I'm all ears.
Eliza Madrigal: It seems that timing has much to do with practices.. meaning it has seemed to me that you've built on homework from one thing to another...
Stim Morane: I have tried to make the same or related points in each of the forum topics we've discussed here, Eliza.
Mickorod Renard: I find what we do here,,and at pab,,is that it has opened me up to looking at life,,that now feels very good for me
Stim Morane: Good, Mick
Eliza Madrigal: and that when we approach something like this, very extended, that has reverberations... then it can take a while to work with...
Stim Morane: yes, i see what you mean, Eliza
Stim Morane: is it tolerable?
Stim Morane: or too uncomfortable?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes... though I do wonder if there isn't something I'm missing sometimes...
Stim Morane: that is interesting
Stim Morane: any intuitionsL
Stim Morane: ?
Wester Kiranov: I feel that you're always getting out of this kind of thing what you can handle at that moment
Wester Kiranov: Doing the same thing a year later can be totally different
Eliza Madrigal: Well, I'm sure it has much to do with a sense of what gaya and dao mentioned... working with the ground of our lives... but making sure also to be delicate, patient...
Mickorod Renard: thats a nice obsevation wester
Stim Morane: true, Wester
Stim Morane: yes
Wester Kiranov: so you don't miss things, but sometimes youre not ready for them yet
Stim Morane: I see, Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel: I have to say around the time we were working on co-dependent arising, I find it hard-going at times but it feels as though that emotional difficulties has reduced over time with addresssing 'aliveness' and energy.
Eliza Madrigal: and then is mind, body, energy, also world?
Stim Morane: codependent arising was presented as a topic that could be followed in many ways
Stim Morane: here, with the breathing practice, it also applies
Stim Morane: the "world" is codependent with the mind and sense of self currently in place
Stim Morane: the breathing practice enables us to relax one link, and so the others fall into a new form too
Gaya Ethaniel: I still see it in ie sadness but seems I've accepted? Not sure ...
Mickorod Renard: I am a completely diferent animal now
Stim Morane: It's not always possible to understand such feelings, Gaya
Eliza Madrigal: hm.. nods... yes make it more even eventually... which sometimes it is.. sometimes hm :)
Stim Morane: Mick, say more?
Eliza Madrigal listens
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, that's what I saw, if I couldn't see clearly what a thought was about, I could just relax body and help along instead.
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Stim Morane: relax the sense of self, the notion that it is central and fundamental ...
Stim Morane: breathing can expose more of the real terrain of your nature, while challenging 2ndary stuff that seems central to us merely because of habit
Stim Morane: it is a sneaky practice
Stim Morane: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Mickorod Renard: now,,every issue that I see that would have bothered me lots in the past,,I approach much more sympathetically now,,and phillosophically too,,as well as other posh words for it too
Gaya Ethaniel: Do you think it's ok for me to continue going it/variations etc. going forward Stim?
Gaya Ethaniel: doing*
Stim Morane: I see Mick
Stim Morane: :)
Stim Morane: Gaya, you can do it, but you'd also have to look into why you want to.
Stim Morane: that too may be something that should be released.
Stim Morane: or it may be something that should be brought out more ...
Gaya Ethaniel nods ... ponders.
Stim Morane: this is the tricky part of working via sl ...
Stim Morane: If I see someone, I can tell a lot very quickly sometimes
Stim Morane: but using text and avatars, ...
Stim Morane: note that the feeling you get from doing anything for several hours is going to seem strong, perhaps, even persistent. But I'm not trying to give you a feeling, but a connection to something you are.
Stim Morane: It's about getting real, not getting changed.
Eliza Madrigal: yes seems the opposite of getting charged
Gaya Ethaniel: I think my practices in the past were subtly goal-orientated.
Stim Morane: yes Eliza
Stim Morane: that would be understandable, Gaya
Wester Kiranov: it's so easy to forget that
Gaya Ethaniel: Because since this homework, I have sat less as before ...
Stim Morane: we can't help but have that motive, initially
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Eliza Madrigal: (must sneak out but will leave Eliza with foot swinging until she poofs, Thank You Stim (and all))
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Eliza :)
arabella Ella: bye Eliza
Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza
Wester Kiranov: bye eliza
Stim Morane: the point is that if we get a sense of what we are, that sense acts as a trigger, encouraging more appreciation for what we are on various levels
Stim Morane: Bye Eliza
Stim Morane: The "aliveness" level is just one, simple but important
Mickorod Renard: if I might say,,,I have found that I am listening more,,and receptive more,,yet issues roll off me like water dropping off a water tight covering,,and I see clearer resolves to problems
Stim Morane: good
Stim Morane: finding yourself in a way that is not just a character in a story makes you more resilient
Mickorod Renard: there seems to be a barrier forming that is protecting me from getting irrational over stupid issues
Stim Morane: partly this is a matter of values being redefined
Stim Morane: but there are other factors ...
Stim Morane: for one thing, you can actually start to work with your mind, emotions, perspectives, etc
Stim Morane: the barrier is groundedness, but also being conversant with the mind ... able to negotiate w it
Stim Morane: by barrier, here i mean, the resource that makes you more robust in life
Gaya Ethaniel: hm ... wonder the choice of word ... barrier = resrouce
Stim Morane: well, I used barrier following on Mick's comment
Stim Morane: it's not really I word I normally use
Stim Morane: but i see what he meant
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... yes I was thinking and missed Mick's comment ^^;;;
Mickorod Renard: well, I was thinking about it the other day..I am seeing myself becoming more at one with nature,,in that I am turning sideways to the full wind of negatives
Stim Morane: so in that sense, why not. We could say we're talking about a shield that wards off our own attacks on our composure and presence
Stim Morane: we are ordinarily undermining ourselves without realizing it
Stim Morane: anyway, this is all very obvious stuff, on the level of talking.
Stim Morane: If you take the step towards doing something with it, then it has some importance.
Gaya Ethaniel: Re: my previou question ... guess following energy could be a good hint as well as enjoying whether to decide continuing with a practice or not?
Stim Morane: Questions? Ideas for a happy 2010?
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Stim Morane: Gaya ... that is tricky. Could you supply more information?
Stim Morane: sorry to ask
Mickorod Renard: I would like to understand something
Stim Morane: go ahead, mick
Gaya Ethaniel: Well first repeated attempt, I had enough time to do 3 hr the whole process.
Mickorod Renard: ok
Stim Morane: OK, Gaya, and then?
Gaya Ethaniel: Me being myself, I'd normally have gone through it but I just couldn't sit still anymore half-way through.
Mickorod Renard: its just that we are having issues with all the crud that we built up,,like bagage
Gaya Ethaniel: So decided to stop and was ok about it.
Stim Morane: Gaya, you mean when you tried it again?
Stim Morane: Yes, very true, Mick
Mickorod Renard: but how do we influence our children in an appropriate way,,yet predserving their true nature?
Stim Morane: it can all be released
Stim Morane: oh, sorry ... re children
Stim Morane: be in your aliveness nature, THEN see them within that.
Stim Morane: then decide
Mickorod Renard: or efffect others without damaging their true nature
Stim Morane: same answer
Mickorod Renard: ok,,thanks
Mickorod Renard: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes, I wanted to repeat all of the steps but during the first writing part, I was already converging on being breathing perhaps that's why I couldn't sit through the whole sitting/2nd writing part etc. Usually I'd be determined to sit through it ... but I didn't and was ok. So kind of being spontaneous and more open perhaps. Am I making sense?
Stim Morane: we usually try to make good decisions when we are not really ourselves
Stim Morane: this last was in response to Mick
Stim Morane: Yes, Gaya, I get it now
Stim Morane: This is whay I left the practice so open-ended
Stim Morane: you can modify as needed, every time will be diff
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ...
Stim Morane: why
Stim Morane: but don't force anything
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Stim Morane: and don't build up too much of a charge ...
Stim Morane: that is a potential problem
Stim Morane: stay within a modest, easy reange
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ... I think I know what you mean.
Stim Morane: range
Stim Morane: we are greedy, because of our being so disconnected, so we are hungry for a big hit of something
Stim Morane: don't follow that impulse
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Stim Morane: take the lesser portion
Mickorod Renard: that is a danger I feel sometimes
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Feeling tired rather than refreshed is a tell-tell sign for that right?
Stim Morane: feeling tired could indicate various things, including just that you've gone too far or it's time to take a nap
Stim Morane: yes, Mick
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Stim Morane: it could mean you should go play cricket outside
Gaya Ethaniel: I will watch carefully :)
Stim Morane: or go play music, or write, or do some work
Stim Morane: feeling tired could mean many things
Mickorod Renard: less dangerous
Stim Morane: yes
Stim Morane: :)
Stim Morane: just don't be too ambitious
Stim Morane: I mean, with the breathing
Mickorod Renard: how did you guess I do silly things like play cricket indoors?
Stim Morane: :)
Wester Kiranov: :D
Stim Morane: I have spies everywhere, Mick
Gaya Ethaniel: Then ... feeling the high energy building up which happens each time so far, what do you recommend us to do?
arabella Ella: wasnt it golf ... or basketball?
Mickorod Renard: :)
Stim Morane: Gaya, get up before that builds up too much, and take a walk
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Stim Morane: see what is around you, don't wish for anything else
Stim Morane: consider you're inside a dream
Stim Morane: the life is all
Stim Morane: nothing beyond the next step
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Stim Morane: if you still feel too charged up, then relax that emphasis and allow yourself to be a bit distracted ...
Stim Morane: here being distracted is itself a practice ... like a medicine
Stim Morane: if still too charged, watch a movie ...
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: These are little breaks you suggested within the practice?
Stim Morane: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Mickorod Renard: I still get drawn into seeing temptation as an issue,,maybe cos of a christian upbringing,,but I still think that all my negartives are due to wanting unnessesary things
Stim Morane: you have to be artful about these breaks and adjustmens
Stim Morane: adjustments
Stim Morane: well, let's see what happens over a bit longer time frame, Mick
Stim Morane: Speaking of time ...
Stim Morane: perhaps we should allow this part of what we're doing to come to an end.
Stim Morane: We're approaching some holidays ... it may be best to take a vacation for a few weeks.
Mickorod Renard: is there homework?
Stim Morane: have your life
Stim Morane: :0
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Stim Morane: :)
arabella Ella: any limits for distractions?
Stim Morane: settle back to basics, if you're in the northern hemisphere
Stim Morane: if you're down under, then go for it
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: like staying warm and eating?
Wester Kiranov: :)
Stim Morane: yes, Mick
Stim Morane: or just reading a book, or pet the dog
Wester Kiranov: getting enough light helps as well
Stim Morane: yes, get outside ... good point, wester
Mickorod Renard: a good cigar?
Stim Morane: sure
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Stim Morane: I suggest we might meet again on Jan 7, and at that time we could consider if there's anything we'd like to try.
Stim Morane: I need to spend more time learning about SL, and may simply not be in a position yet to do much here that's really useful.
Mickorod Renard: Stim,,you are always useful here
Wester Kiranov: second that
Stim Morane: that's kind of you to say, Mick, but I am sure I need to learn a lot yet.
Gaya Ethaniel: Stim if you create a female alt then please give me a head-up :D
Stim Morane: you mean, for you, Gaya?
Stim Morane: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: You said you're going to learn about SL so ... you could try being a woman lol
Stim Morane: if I create an alt for myself, it will be a truck driver alt
Stim Morane: :)
Wester Kiranov: so - when you come back you will have your Enlightenment Wand ready?
Gaya Ethaniel: :P
Mickorod Renard: that would mean unlearning lots Stim
Stim Morane: you may have one, Wester
Stim Morane: yes, mick
arabella Ella: i can imagine you as a personal trainer rather than truck driver
Stim Morane: too lazy, ara
arabella Ella: :)
Stim Morane: I could train people to take naps, maybe
Mickorod Renard: I was thinking if u changed sex
Stim Morane: oh
Gaya Ethaniel: Though Stim feels not so male per se ... :)
Mickorod Renard: truck drivers are good at reading maps
Stim Morane: :)
arabella Ella: naps in the afternoon can be so refreshing
arabella Ella: to re charge mental batteries
Stim Morane: so anyway, please have a happy/sad etc real life
Mickorod Renard: and you Stim,,thankyou
Stim Morane: I look forward to chatting with you on the 7th, and then we can see if there's a next step
arabella Ella: thanks Stim for everything and enjoy the holiday season!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you Stim :) Have a wonderful Christmas holiday everyone!
Mickorod Renard: you will be around in sl though,,over xmas Stim?
Wester Kiranov: hope I remember to be here then ;)
Stim Morane: thanks, Mick, arabella, Gaya ...
Calvino Rabeni: thanks stim
Stim Morane: We'll arrange a notice, Wester
Scathach Rhiadra: thank you Stim, see you next year:)
Stim Morane: Thanks, Scathach
Wester Kiranov: ty stim - not just for the notice :)
Mickorod Renard: Bye Stim,,happy xmas,and new year
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Stim Morane: Bye everyone!
Timbo Quan: Thanks Stim & have a great holiday
Wester Kiranov: bye all
Mickorod Renard: bye Wester,,bye all
Scathach Rhiadra: good night all:)
Timbo Quan: night all
arabella Ella: nite everyone and merry xmas and happy new year too
Mickorod Renard: yeaaaa,,see u at the party