2009.12.03 - Workshop 36

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    The following is the transcript for the workshop of Dec 3rd 2009.

    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stim, Scath, Gaya, Justine :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza:)
    Stim Morane: Hi Gaya, Scathach, Eliza!
    Justine Rhapsody: Hi Eliza :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Timbo:)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tim...think I saw right through you before :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tim :)
    Timbo Quan: hello everyone
    Stim Morane: Hi Timbo
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pila :)
    Pila Mulligan: greetings freinds
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila:0
    Timbo Quan: Hello Pila
    Justine Rhapsody: Hello Pila
    Stim Morane: Hi Pila!
    Eliza Madrigal: greetings and felicitations
    Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi all!
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello again Tarmel, Kaju
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel:)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Stim Morane: Hey Tarmel!
    Tarmel Udimo: Finally a day I can make it
    Timbo Quan: Hi Tarmel
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Justine Rhapsody: Hello Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: Stim you've changed:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: greetings Gaya :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Justine, Calvino
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Calvino!
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi again Calvino
    Timbo Quan: Hello Calvino
    Calvino Rabeni: :) Scath, everyone
    Justine Rhapsody: hello Calvino
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Storm :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Calvino, Storm
    Tarmel Udimo: hello storm, nice entrance
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Storm:)
    Timbo Quan: Hello Storm
    Storm Nordwind grins
    Tarmel Udimo: good, content
    Pila Mulligan: hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: 5.6, 5.7, 5.4
    Stim Morane: Hi Storm
    Storm Nordwind: Hi all
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dao :)
    Dao Yheng: Hi! Still rezzing chairs :)
    Timbo Quan: Hi Storm, Dao
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Dao :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi Dao
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Dao:)
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Dao
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dao :)
    Stim Morane: My Thanks to those of you who contributed personal reflections to our wiki over the past week.
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Stim Morane: All of them were helpful to me, and some were quite amusing too.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel is curious ... :P
    Stim Morane: curious?
    Gaya Ethaniel: What was amusing I mean :)
    Stim Morane: well, Dao has quite a sly sense of humor, for instance.
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I like Dao's report too. Quite interesting ... very different from what I know :)
    Eliza Madrigal nods, smiling
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: They were all valuable ...
    Dao Yheng: Hey, picking on the lagging one today!
    Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh
    Dao Yheng: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Stim Morane: So did any of you get a sense of either of the two emphases from last week, human nature or "aliveness" nature?
    Stim Morane: Either by their presence or relative absense?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I guess going through being sick was some sort of seeing being 'alive' ...
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Stim Morane: How are you now?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well now thanks :)
    Stim Morane: Great
    Gaya Ethaniel: I didn't push too much to get back to things ... was careful.
    Stim Morane: Sure, best approach
    Stim Morane: Many people I know now have the flu ... a tricky one.
    Stim Morane: So Gaya, you're certainly exempt from "7 days of homework" ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: :) though I was sick more from being stressed for previous few weeks rather than flu.
    Calvino Rabeni: I put my attention into "tiredness" and found it rather deliciously "alive". So it's not what I'm used to thinking.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ?
    Stim Morane: This surprises you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: mhm
    Stim Morane: But the point is, in part, that everything has this aliveness in it, when seen more directly.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Though this time I did see being sick isn't being down ... tricky.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Stim Morane: darkness, obstacles, sickness, etc.
    Gaya Ethaniel: I guess ... had to eat more. I got sick of eating!
    Stim Morane: illness is certainly an opportunity, not that I'm hoping any of you will suffer ...
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: oh well, you can stop eating for a while then
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes :)
    Stim Morane: OK ...
    Stim Morane: so, other responses re the two natures I mentioned?
    Dao Yheng: I was surprised I did feel a sense of aliveness over the holidays, but the hard time was the bad phone call
    Stim Morane: ah
    Stim Morane: that played out for quite a while?
    Stim Morane: Eliza, you mentioned a number of points that are relevant to our discussion, one way or another?
    Stim Morane: Are there any further observations along those lines?
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure which aspects... I found it helpful to go from watching/walking around with energy... into noticing aliveness...
    Stim Morane: Are you still "cleaning out"?
    Eliza Madrigal: and experiencing turbulence while at the same time doing that...
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh yes indeed
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Storm and I even had a pab session on this today... decluttering :))))
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Storm Nordwind chuckles
    Stim Morane: aliveness has a complex dynamic character, with many subfunctions.
    Stim Morane: Decluttering PaB?
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    Stim Morane: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Well, we talked about decluttering and kindness... but you know there is something about rearranging things and organizing...
    Eliza Madrigal: frees up energy
    Stim Morane: yes
    Stim Morane: As I started to mention, it's one of the key subfunctions ...
    Stim Morane: we can't just keep taking things in ...
    Stim Morane: OK ... well, so have any of you found some activities that seem to bring out or highlight the kinds of things we discussed last time?
    Eliza Madrigal: stuff, is often stuff I've deferred dealing with... so there comes emotion, too
    Stim Morane: yes, exactly
    Stim Morane: I was somewhat fascinated by my teachers, who had only about as many personal items as you could put in a trunk ...
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm liking that idea very much! :)
    Stim Morane: this was not just because they were poor ...
    Stim Morane: they had obviously made a practice of keeping things within certain limits
    Stim Morane: very light
    Gaya Ethaniel: So ... physical things can weigh on us as well as mental things?
    Stim Morane: we become buried by our possessions
    Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps the distinction isn't helpful ... not sure.
    Stim Morane: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Storm Nordwind recalls that emigrating and giving nearly all my stuff away beforehand was a nice freeing experience
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, and have to find a balance with others' posessions, too
    Stim Morane: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: Why?
    Tarmel Udimo: in the process of decluttering myself
    Eliza Madrigal: I can imagine it would be, Storm
    Dao Yheng: In our small kitchen, we had a hard time cleaning up after a large meal -- had to move one thing to put down another, but then where to put down this other thing?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can guess ... Feng sui and all that but please tell us from your point of view Stim.
    Stim Morane: Yes, Dao, I know the feeling!
    Stim Morane: Gaya, it all comes down to the issue of direct awareness
    Cup Of Green Tea whispers: Ah! Steaming Green Tea!
    Stim Morane: direct awareness appreciates the fullness of things and the emptiness of things, and is also immediately expressed in our actions
    Stim Morane: without direct awareness and its expression, we acquire but don't see and don't "empty"
    Stim Morane: we leave no room to live
    Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, nods
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Stim Morane: we possess but don't appreciate
    Gaya Ethaniel: Is it like similar to me registering things by senses even without intention, hence reducing space?
    Stim Morane: we are hindered by things that do have a value but whose value is not appreciated and acted upon
    Stim Morane: Gaya, there are many possibilities.
    Storm Nordwind: And these are "things" can be other than material objects too
    Stim Morane: I'm basically talking about immediate appreciation, action, and moving on ...
    Tarmel Udimo: agree storm
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Stim Morane: yes, Storm
    Stim Morane: Ideas, notes, book entries, commitments, ...
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Stim Morane: Not that I'm any good at what I'm talking about ... :)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Stim Morane: But it is part of the overall understanding of direct awareness
    Tarmel Udimo: we do our best:)
    Gaya Ethaniel: So respecting limit and helping ourselves along ...
    Stim Morane: yes, Tarmel ... I hope that can someday be said of even me.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: how can it be otherwise
    Stim Morane: it's all about expressing reality ...
    Stim Morane: reality doesn't have clutter and isn't encumbered
    Stim Morane: you could follow Eliza's experiment with a similar one of your own.
    Tarmel Udimo: ( I meant about you doing your best:)
    Stim Morane: And then please come over to my house too ... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: I like getting things in order, throwing things out/away ... I understand it but atm, it's a bit confusing how that has anything to do with reality.
    Stim Morane: So what about aliveness? Any other observations?
    Stim Morane: oh, Gaya, this is interesting
    Stim Morane: You're saying you don't feel being boxed in by clutter? ANd that that feeling doesn't constrict your awareness and appropriate action towards others?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I does affect me yes.
    Stim Morane: Does it affect your "reality sense", your engagement with reality?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I never go too long without tidying up ... so can't be too sure.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Brought up that way.
    Stim Morane: ah
    Stim Morane: OK
    Eliza Madrigal: our minds get quite cluttered too... with little loops of thoughts
    Gaya Ethaniel: More room to breath, think ... when it's all nice and tidy :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: More productive ... etc
    Storm Nordwind has moved house many times (over 40 "permanent" addresses). I found that in my attic were boxes of things that I only ever looked at each time I moved!! Needless to say, this time I was ruthless, and they've gone forever. :)
    Stim Morane: Eliza, yes, the same point applies on that level. I think Storm implied this too.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Eliza Madrigal is learning to be lovingly ruthless
    Stim Morane: Direct awareness is ruthless, in a sense.
    Stim Morane: So what about "aliveness"? I'm still chasing that point ... I'm hesitant to suggest formal exercises, but I will if you wish.
    Calvino Rabeni: Connecting with environment aound seems part of aliveness
    Stim Morane: yes, Calvino
    Stim Morane: that is a crucial aspect of the issue
    Stim Morane: have you been a boy in the trees at some point? :)
    Calvino Rabeni: :) yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: What is 'a boy in the trees'?
    Stim Morane: a Calvino novel
    Gaya Ethaniel: I mean :) What does he do?
    Stim Morane: he stays there
    Stim Morane: we are not literally in the trees, but in another sense, we are in more of Nature than we usually explicitly appreciate
    Stim Morane: anyway, it's the contextual issue that Calvino raises, and it's important.
    Gaya Ethaniel: So ... how does human nature fit into all this?
    Calvino Rabeni: The idea of Nature as a getaway is romantic
    Stim Morane: the "human nature" is another thing to cultivate, to find within ourselves, and to express actively in life
    Calvino Rabeni: But not where we live
    Stim Morane: Yes, Calvino, we don't need that romantic aspect
    Calvino Rabeni: Here / now can be primordial
    Stim Morane: yes, it Is
    Stim Morane: Here's an exercise for aliveness:
    Stim Morane: pick a day when you have a couple of hours free ...
    Stim Morane: I hope somewhere in your schedules this is possible
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: when the time comes, just get a sheet of paper, and write out a hundred words on how your life seems to you
    Stim Morane: the world, circumstances, your sense of self ...
    Stim Morane: then put it aside, sit in a comfy chair (not in some formal crosslegged posture), and just settle into breathing.
    Stim Morane: Spend time just converging on being breathing ...
    Stim Morane: not a formal practice, not a technique, but just what it actually is, what is actually present ...
    Stim Morane: and include everything else that arises too, thoughts, emotions, MEMORIES, etc
    Stim Morane: but stay with the breathing aspect, and let it open up (not be constrained by your ideas of what breathing is).
    Stim Morane: we talked about this before, in a previous session
    Stim Morane: but do this for several hours!
    Stim Morane: you can wriggle around, stand up if necessary, even walk a bit, relax, and then sit down again and continue.
    Gaya Ethaniel: So start sitting once I spit everything out on the paper?
    Stim Morane: 100 words, then sit and breath, with little breaks, for several hours.
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Stim Morane: THEN get another sheet of paper ...
    Stim Morane: write out how life, the world, your circumstances then and there, etc seem to you.
    Stim Morane: 100 wordxs
    Stim Morane: words
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: then compare the two accounts
    Gaya Ethaniel: I could cheat by photocopying the first one :P
    Pila Mulligan: or less by then maybe :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: I know ...
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: well, perhaps they won't be identical.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Storm Nordwind: So effectively 3 exercises
    Stim Morane: Look at the differences.
    Stim Morane: Yes, three exercises, really
    Stim Morane: Consider the differences carefull
    Stim Morane: carefully
    Gaya Ethaniel: Anything to remember during writing? Would be like meditating as well?
    Stim Morane: just write
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Stim Morane: no promeditation
    Stim Morane: write from how you feel in each case
    Stim Morane: then describe the differences to yourself ...
    Stim Morane: this is basically another exercise ... articulate the diffs
    Stim Morane: then drop it all for the day and go have fun
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Storm Nordwind: You mean we're not allowed to have fun during the exercises? ;)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Stim Morane: you have what you have, what you see there
    Stim Morane: that could well be very fun
    Stim Morane: but it might also be very sad, or uncertain, or angry ...
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: we are usually lost in the story of the ordinary sense of self, and have basically no connection to our living natures.
    Stim Morane: this can be regained, a little, even in this one several hour session.
    Stim Morane: with some care about being explicit re what you were, then shifted to, diffs etc
    Stim Morane: this is not a meditation practice in the ordinary sense.
    Stim Morane: Clear enuf?
    Eliza Madrigal: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Calvino Rabeni: good
    Stim Morane: it's a one shot deal
    Stim Morane: then, of course, please come back. We need to chat ... :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh
    Stim Morane: I want to talk to the "living being" in you.
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: See you in a few years time for that Stim :P
    Stim Morane: yes, that''s fine, Gaya.
    idanthology Sandalwood: interesting...could i ask what the general trend of the differences were when u did this exercise, stim?
    Stim Morane: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Stim Morane: idanthology, do you have some suspicions re this?
    Gaya Ethaniel: lol
    idanthology Sandalwood: after a bought of meditation...more @ peace, a bit more comfortable w/ the world & how to manage it?
    Stim Morane: yes, possible ...
    Stim Morane: but what I'm angling for is a new take on what you are.
    Stim Morane: this is different from a new experience, it's a new discovery of what is there, usually covered over.
    Stim Morane: the clutter gets in the way
    Stim Morane: the clutter even redefines "living nature"
    Tarmel Udimo: by dumping the personality or thoughts we have about ourselves we can access more freely the 'authentic self'
    Tarmel Udimo: or living nature
    Pila Mulligan: another aspect of this exercise may be having a particularly signifcant insight during the sitting/breathing time
    Tarmel Udimo: yes when connected to the less cluttered self
    Stim Morane: Tarmel, you are free to go that route, but I'm only asking for a chance for the living nature to emerge ... if you also want to dump a few things, fine
    Stim Morane: Yes, Pila
    Stim Morane: this is very basic stuff I'm talking about ...
    Tarmel Udimo: OK my misunderstanding
    Stim Morane: but most human beings will never do it
    Tarmel Udimo: I thought that what was happening during the first exercise
    Stim Morane: Tarmel, no misunderstanding
    Calvino Rabeni: basic is good
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Stim Morane: I doubt that you would ever really misunderstand me, Tarmel.
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hehehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: wow ... this is basic?! *sigh* I feel very thick.
    Stim Morane: so I'm descrbing a basic one-time practice, yes.
    Stim Morane: very basic
    Stim Morane: in several senses
    Stim Morane: but you actually HAVE TO DO IT
    Stim Morane: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: : u say tat everytime :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: it's not about using up your time with "practices"
    Storm Nordwind: Zie homeverk gestapo knows ver your guardian pot iz
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you really think Stim I will be able to see something emerging from one-time practice like this?
    Stim Morane: it's about encouraging you to dedicate your time to what you are ...
    Stim Morane: Yes, Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Stim Morane: you will see something that I, at least, would value greatly.
    Eliza Madrigal: stirring the embers
    Gaya Ethaniel: I am looking forward to doing it but would be nice to have less doubt :)
    Stim Morane: Of course, I'm notoriously easy to satisfy.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok :)
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Stim Morane: so if you don't like it, give it to me.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok
    Stim Morane: it would be fun to see some of those little 100-word pieces too ...
    Stim Morane: but you can keep them private if you want.
    Tarmel Udimo: that could be opeing a huge whirling pot Stim
    Stim Morane: yes, I know.
    Stim Morane: If you get swallowed up, call me. I'm in the phone book, probably.
    Tarmel Udimo: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Storm Nordwind: Look up "maelstrom" :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hahaha
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Stim Morane: OK, almost time to go...
    Tarmel Udimo: nice to have a good laugh in the moring to start the day:)
    Stim Morane: questions, extreme objections?
    Tarmel Udimo: *morning
    Stim Morane: yes Tarmel
    Stim Morane: when you finish the little exercise, pass results on to Pila and he will grade them
    Eliza Madrigal: :)))
    Pila Mulligan: alll A +
    Stim Morane: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: :)))))
    Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    Calvino Rabeni: Pila will do more than that :)
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Tarmel Udimo: :)
    Stim Morane: :)
    Stim Morane: OK ... that's it.
    Stim Morane: See you next time!
    Eliza Madrigal: What a nice session, Thank you Stim. Thanks everyone, too!
    Pila Mulligan: bye for now Stim
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :)
    Tarmel Udimo: nice to see you Stim,
    Stim Morane: bye everyone!
    Eliza Madrigal runs back to chores
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night Stim, thank you:)
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Stim Morane: Nice to see you, Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: bye
    idanthology Sandalwood: later...take care, y'all
    Dao Yheng: have a good evening!
    Tarmel Udimo: bye for now all......
    Timbo Quan: bye all
    Calvino Rabeni: Bye T
    Pila Mulligan: bye for now
    Gaya Ethaniel waves.
    Scathach Rhiadra: good night all:)

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