2010.11.25 - Joy

Avy Runner: thanks Mick :)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you guys!
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: Happy Thanksgiving to those US/Not, all who are thankful :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Avy Runner: hi Seeme
Eliza Madrigal: Hey, Ya
Mickorod Renard: Hi Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: hehe, and lego has avi tail
Avy Runner: :)
Avy Runner: tail is in my back :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it's "onigokko'
Eliza Madrigal: Mitsu and Dao have family plans I believe... and not sure about Gaya's schedule... but let's give them a few minutes. Zen runs late on Thurs a bit
Eliza Madrigal: yes, cute :) (oni)
Eliza Madrigal just woke from nap after thanksgiving brunch
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Avy Runner: :)
Mickorod Renard: nice
stevenaia Michinaga: was napping at PaB :)
stevenaia Michinaga: big lunch
Avy Runner: until somebody said oni gokko :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
Eliza Madrigal: yes, really like daughter's new boyfriend except for the freerunning thing
Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
Eliza Madrigal: hhaha onigokko is our freeruning I guess
Seeme Short: hihi
Mickorod Renard: yeaaa
stevenaia Michinaga: freerunning ?
Eliza Madrigal: yes it is a hobby of running from building to building... on roofs ... jumping....
Mickorod Renard: parcours
stevenaia Michinaga: awww youth
Eliza Madrigal: bit dangerous
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Gaya Ethaniel is Online
Eliza Madrigal: still, really nice otherwise
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Did anyone besides Zen and I write a report? we have a new wiki now...
Eliza Madrigal: let me get the link
Avy Runner: hi Gaya
Eliza Madrigal: http://waysofknowing.kira.org/
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi gaya
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
Mickorod Renard: I have done no homework,,sorry
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Avy Runner: homework :S
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I will listen today
Mickorod Renard: Hi Gaya
stevenaia Michinaga: (avoiding homework)
Mickorod Renard: me too
Eliza Madrigal: yes, we've been discussing the four immeasurables or 'abodes'
Eliza Madrigal: no, please participate, haha...
Eliza Madrigal: the report is 'back up'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Avy Runner: I will try to listen, though that is hard for me :))
Eliza Madrigal: I didn't front page link to our reports.. have to look under recent changes :)
Avy Runner: sometimes :)
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: hopes everyone who wrote and who didn't will participate :)
Eliza Madrigal: We are on the fourth immeasureable: JOY
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: I will edit the front page now one sec.
Eliza Madrigal: lightning gaya :)
Avy Runner: (trying to make the circle smaller)
Avy Runner: ahhhhhh :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Joy in this context is described as 'unselfish' joy....
Gaya Ethaniel: http://waysofknowing.kira.org/
stevenaia Michinaga: the gift of joy? Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel: Doesn't link as well as the old wiki - I will look into this later.
Eliza Madrigal: mudita, having to do with taking pleasure in others' blessings... so similar to metta
Eliza Madrigal: at least that's one angle
stevenaia Michinaga: oops, so much for just listenng
Eliza Madrigal: gift of joy is nice, Steve
Eliza Madrigal: haha please don't 'just listen'
Eliza Madrigal: !
Eliza Madrigal: say more re the gift of joy?

Gaya Ethaniel: I read some translating into 'bliss' compared to joy [piti] that comes under mental formations.

Eliza Madrigal: oh, interesting!
stevenaia Michinaga: the joy of giving, not receiving
Mickorod Renard: if its feeling well from seeing others happy maybe thats something we relate to?
Gaya Ethaniel: So mudita is not joy as one would normally understand.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Ewan :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ewan :)
stevenaia Michinaga: this would be unselfish joy.. to me
Avy Runner: hi Ewan :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes and also perhaps grounded.
Eliza Madrigal: yes... that makes sense too...unconditioned joy
Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks!
stevenaia Michinaga: except.... if it brings you joy, is it unselfish?
Ewan Bonham: Hi Folks!
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: well, so intention seems key... 'where' it is coming from...
stevenaia Michinaga: or just a byproduct
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey ewan
Ewan Bonham: Yes, if my intention is to receive after i have given...then that may well fall flat..:)
stevenaia Michinaga: how can you give it unselfishly w/o being joyful yourself?
Eliza Madrigal: yes, like you couldn't 'get' it if you wanted to, but giving it up it may find you?
Eliza Madrigal: we're swimming in it perhaps
Gaya Ethaniel: I'd think it's an expression of our nature.
Gaya Ethaniel: Or participation ...
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Eliza Madrigal: Steve, I read your log from last night... liked Pila's fish story... do you remember it well enough to tell it?
Mickorod Renard: it may be something we overlook ,,if it is something already natural in us?
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, I can copy it
stevenaia Michinaga: one moment
Eliza Madrigal: too close to see... nodding @ Mick

stevenaia Michinaga: There are these two young fish swimming along, and they happen to meet an older fish swimming the other way, who nods at them and says, "Morning, boys, how's the water?" And the two young fish swim on for a bit, and then eventually one of them looks over at the other and goes, "What the hell is water?"
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Eliza Madrigal: ty Steve
Mickorod Renard: he he
Avy Runner: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure joy is quite the same
Eliza Madrigal: yes I hadn't thought of it this way til I sat down here just now
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: but when we aren't centralized on ourselves maybe we see what connects us
Mickorod Renard: I think there are some who may not see it also because they are not in it too
Eliza Madrigal: or... something
Avy Runner: feeling 'real' joy is maybe also about a bigger perspective?
Zen Arado is Online
Gaya Ethaniel: Surely it's no-thing?
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, nods
Gaya Ethaniel: Of course we have to refer it as if it's something :P
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: I think there must be an uplifting of the heart,,to feel the joy of seeing others enjoy
Gaya Ethaniel: I think 4 immeasurables aren't subject to conditioning or changes as we know.
Zen Arado: Hi all
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Zen :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Zen
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Avy Runner: hi Zen:)
Gaya Ethaniel: So I'd say one wouldn't be swept away from mudita.
Avy Runner: but maybe we know more
Ewan Bonham: Hi Zen
Gaya Ethaniel: swept away by*
Eliza Madrigal: there is a little children's book I read to my kids called 'rainbow fish' and this fish is so beautiful... has the loveliest scales... everyone meets the fish and admires the scales and ask for one but the fish is afraid "if I give them away I won't be special anymore".... at the end he finds out all of life is special and he loves everyone having one of his scales
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi zen
Avy Runner: or sometimes we find ourselves in the kind of place where we know more
Gaya Ethaniel: So he got nakkid :P
Eliza Madrigal: for a while I actually didn't like the book because I thought it was discouraging uniqueness, etc.
Eliza Madrigal: I think there is a way for 'both' :)
Eliza Madrigal: that's what unconditioned might be.... something like that ?
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not sure if I'd give away scales myself :P
Mickorod Renard: well, its not expensive to give away some love
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zen Arado: if it's an unlimited resorce
Zen Arado: and it is
Eliza Madrigal: boundless
stevenaia Michinaga: it actually increeases "weath"
Zen Arado: not zero sum
Gaya Ethaniel: Loving-kindness could be seen as boundless perhaps?
Eliza Madrigal: ! true wealth
Ewan Bonham: That is the easiest for me...love is clearly something that grows when I give it away..

Gaya Ethaniel: This bit from Zen's report caught my eye - I sometimes feel a little guilty if I don't feel much in the way of sympathetic joy towards people when the occasion seems to demand it
Mickorod Renard: for sure
Avy Runner: learning the source of giving away, while doing it
Eliza Madrigal: Nice
Zen Arado: it's when I feel I 'should' feel it i don't like
Eliza Madrigal: doesn't one have to 'risk' them'self' ... ? this is why I linked it to renunciation and devotion...
Zen Arado: guess I'm a rebel
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I'm happy for anyone happily getting married ... beyond that, not sure I feel the pressure as you described it Zen.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Ewan Bonham: The 'should'...that would make it difficult to give, would it not?
Zen Arado: that engagement seems such a nin event to me
Zen Arado: non*
Gaya Ethaniel shrugs ... understandable.
Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's part of the resentment sometimes, if one is made to feel they should it is like not giving credit to their own natural response that they will... 'be happy for' etc
Zen Arado: maybe because I am not in favour of Royalty

Mickorod Renard: maybe this is another route towards loving ourselves a bit more too
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Ewan Bonham: And discovering the love that resides within us..
Gaya Ethaniel: You mean nourishing ourselves Mick?
Zen Arado: think it is an anachronistic institution
Zen Arado: but just my opinion
Mickorod Renard: yes, withoutknowing it
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Avy Runner: I think so Mick
Eliza Madrigal: nice idea Mick
Zen Arado: loving kindness to ourselves
Zen Arado: first
Avy Runner: loving kindness to others radiating on ourselves?
Eliza Madrigal: or through loving others...
Mickorod Renard: Stim used to suggest I should love myself more,,and it sounded selfish for me to do so,,but for sure, I recognise a feeling of well being when I feel happy for others
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, nice Avy
Avy Runner: *radiating
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Zen Arado: I had a realization about sympathetic joy
Zen Arado: but forget what it was
Eliza Madrigal: yes I remember that Mick... your struggle a bit...
Mickorod Renard: :)
Zen Arado: something along those lines Mick
Gaya Ethaniel: I think when one practice loving kindness, the line between me and others blur ... so benefits would be for all.
Eliza Madrigal: seems to go back to no zero sum
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Avy Runner: yes (Gaya)
Eliza Madrigal: just being open, in some sense, just not witholding what is
Gaya Ethaniel: When we are content and happy, we would share more of those with others and also take pleasure in others' happiness as well.
Ewan Bonham: openness can be a natural form of expressing love as well>)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes :)
Avy Runner: right
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods
Zen Arado: jealousy is the big stopper
Eliza Madrigal: yes, what when we are not happy... or not 'feeling' happy... the out from that can be to take pleasure in others' happiness...
Zen Arado: why do we feel jealous?
Gaya Ethaniel: Partly to do with acceptance?
Eliza Madrigal: yes and fear
stevenaia Michinaga: a choice that is dificult to change
Zen Arado: selfishness
Avy Runner: I think that can be both ways Eliza, sometimes feeling joy for others helps us, sometimes we need to concentrate on our own unhappiness
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I see what you mean Avy, interesting point
Zen Arado: they say you can't love others until you love yourself
Eliza Madrigal: I find that even when I 'think' there is nothing to give, there is, then I feel like I have something to give...
Mickorod Renard: I am not sure Zen
Eliza Madrigal: which is pleasureable :)
Mickorod Renard: maybe it should be' you cant love others without loving yourself
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Avy Runner: hmmmm, sounds good Mick :)
Ewan Bonham: And sometimes when i feel sadness, then giving OF myself becomes givingTO myself..:)
Eliza Madrigal: when I am really miserable, I gather donations....
Eliza Madrigal: YES Ewan
Avy Runner: right
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Zen Arado: should we share our misery too ?
stevenaia Michinaga: why?
Eliza Madrigal: tough question Zen!
Avy Runner: why not?
Zen Arado: or keep it to ourselves
Ewan Bonham: Is misery real?
stevenaia Michinaga: as real as jealousy?
Eliza Madrigal: it feels real sometimes... like the pillow I'm leaning on now
Avy Runner: sure it is real
Zen Arado: notice how much time I spend complaining lately
Eliza Madrigal: but knowing it will pass helps too... real but not 'lasting'
Ewan Bonham: That is something I wrestle with..
Zen Arado: and lots of others do too
Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't noticed that Zen ...
Ewan Bonham: only because my 'misery' is something I have given focus and energy to..:)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: complain about the weather etc
Avy Runner: I think sharing misery is something different then complaining (though i have no idea if you are complaining :) )
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Gaya Ethaniel: Oh yes, it's getting very cold! Brass monkeys ...
Zen Arado: you should hear me about Christmas :)
Eliza Madrigal: brass monkeys?
Avy Runner is liking the weather
Gaya Ethaniel: lol a maritime phrase I think :P
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Ewan Bonham: i do believe that folks are more attracted to joy than to misery..:)
Eliza Madrigal: bah humbug zen :)
Avy Runner doesn't like Christmas :(
Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/c...%20monkey.html
Zen Arado: bah humbug indeed :)
Avy Runner: .....not sure Ewan.....
Ewan Bonham: nod Avy
Zen Arado: grumpy old man syndrome
stevenaia Michinaga: often I find joy in living a christmas-free life... seeing many put in misery buy the "holiday"
Eliza Madrigal: yes Ewan.. what I was considering... but maybe it is proportion, There are times to share wrestlings and sadess... but if it is the constant of one's reason to share... hm
Ewan Bonham: I do know misery feels real at the time..:)
Gaya Ethaniel: You mean pleasure Ewan?
Zen Arado: need to accept Christmas
Eliza Madrigal put up a tree today because my son said he 'wanted the spirit to enter' this year
Eliza Madrigal: and his pleasure made me so happy
Gaya Ethaniel: Love Christmas!
Ewan Bonham: Pleasure to me IS real...:)
Avy Runner: :)
Zen Arado: if you have kids it is easier
Gaya Ethaniel: Any excuse to have fun :P
Zen Arado: you can share their joy
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Mickorod Renard: I recently wondered something though,,to be balanced shouldnt we carry a little sadness as well as joy?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Avy Runner: so why is misery not real then Ewan?
Eliza Madrigal: I was bah humbug about shopping last year.... stim said (can) see mall as mandala...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: :)
Zen Arado: hard to do :)
Ewan Bonham: nod Eliza..
Gaya Ethaniel: Today's topic joy isn't pleasure that is emotions like sadness.
Eliza Madrigal: interesting question too mick... sadness makes room for joy....
Gaya Ethaniel: It's not a state per se.
Ewan Bonham: Avy, I am still wrestling with that...and..i would say love is our natural state..:)
Eliza Madrigal: Eos sometimes talks about the 'genuine mind of sadness'.... in Trungpa's teachings there is this idea of a kind of nostalgia for the present....
Zen Arado: if you love someone sympathetic joy is easy ?
Zen Arado: yes - no good pretending you don't feel what you feel...
Eliza Madrigal: not sure... what when you love them and their good news takes them farther away zen?
Avy Runner: I'm wrestiling with it too Ewan, but can't see why one is real and the other isn't
Eliza Madrigal: so you are happy for them but there is a sadness too...
Mickorod Renard: yes
Zen Arado: hmmm.. yes Eliza
Mickorod Renard: one cannot see without sensitivity
Eliza Madrigal: yes, hmmm
Eliza Madrigal: even in our own good news and joy there is sadness for others we maybe can't take with us... or feel we can't
Avy Runner: hmmmm yes
Zen Arado: if someone leaves you in a relationship should you find joy that they are happy with someone else?
Eliza Madrigal: well.... 'shoulds' are tough :)
Zen Arado: that is a hard 'should' :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: night everyone
Zen Arado: nite Yaku
Avy Runner: nite Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus is Offline
Mickorod Renard: nite yaku
Eliza Madrigal: should I be happy for the alligator to eat me? hehe happy for him that he got a good meal?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Avy Runner: it happens
Mickorod Renard: he he
Eliza Madrigal: yes :)
Zen Arado: so there is a limit to this joy then...
Gaya Ethaniel: It's sad for a relationship to come to an end ... but at a later date perhaps, we would be happy for the person to have found happiness?
Mickorod Renard: :)
Avy Runner: I'm not sure it has got something to do with alligators :)
Zen Arado: it doesn't extend to alligators ...
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Gaya Ethaniel: chomp!
Eliza Madrigal: agree Gaya

Mickorod Renard: thats where that word from last week comes in zen
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Avy Runner: maybe the keyword here is 'dying'
Zen Arado: equanimity?
Mickorod Renard: that i forget the name to
Mickorod Renard: yes
Mickorod Renard: grin

Gaya Ethaniel: I don't think feeling sad excludes feeling happy ...
Eliza Madrigal: mmmm, avy
Zen Arado: while a gator is chomping at your leg?
Eliza Madrigal: thre is a phrase used in pema chodron's lojong teachings that there are times to offer oneself to the tigers
Gaya Ethaniel: Eliza's leg ... :P
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Mickorod Renard: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: To be continued in her dream tonight!
Zen Arado: hope not !
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :P
Avy Runner: it would be interesting to change attitude while being eaten :S
Gaya Ethaniel: Just wriggle toes Eliza if you want to wake up :)
Zen Arado: the poor alligator was starving after all
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: and you can get around on leg surely
Zen Arado: one *
Eliza Madrigal: aren't there many buddhist stories about this avy... a sense of having given up to the point where hm...
Zen Arado: wiht a parrot on your shoulder :)
Avy Runner: sometimes I wonder why we think it is a good thing to fight death at all times
Zen Arado: sorry getting carried away
Eliza Madrigal: traditional rules of feeling jealous can't apply, no grasping at all
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes that's from a jataka story I think, Buddha jumping down a cliff to feed a tigeress who has cubs.
Gaya Ethaniel: starving cubs*
Zen Arado: ah yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Acting decisively for sure :P
Zen Arado: think I have a long way to go
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Avy Runner: maybe it is more worthwhile to concentrate on dying then on grabbing on to life
Eliza Madrigal: we discuss these things but they are never hypothetical, that's the problem in some sense... but there is an attitude there, a kind of freedom
Eliza Madrigal: interesting avy, nodding
stevenaia Michinaga: This relates to the value of good, feeding starving tigresses, your life for your childs,
Zen Arado: yes avy
stevenaia Michinaga: some trades of even life make sence
Eliza Madrigal: hierarchy of desires ...
stevenaia Michinaga: value of joy
Mickorod Renard: This is handy if you say love Gd so much you are keen to meet him
Mickorod Renard: God*
Zen Arado: they could use dead humans to feed animals
Eliza Madrigal: :) well, looking for a reason to meet god one may come across many opportunities....
Gaya Ethaniel: Well Tibetan monks do, don't they?
Ewan Bonham: I would like to be with living for as long as i am living.
Zen Arado: vultures?
Avy Runner: or just realizing that we as we are 'rezzed' are just a part of the cycle; it is maybe not the package we should be worried about
Mickorod Renard: he he Ewan
Gaya Ethaniel: Not sure how traditional that practice is though.
Ewan Bonham: It is true, one day, I may meet up with the inevitable eath..
Avy Runner: so do I Ewan :)
Zen Arado: was thinking about that too
Mickorod Renard: quality of the time we are here is good
Eliza Madrigal: :) in christianity joy is associated with everlasting life... with 'salvation'
Zen Arado: we are ust a dufferent form in SL
Eliza Madrigal: a well spring
Gaya Ethaniel: Nice :)
Mickorod Renard: :)

Gaya Ethaniel: So this is our last meeting for this year :)
Mickorod Renard: owww
Eliza Madrigal: sigh
Zen Arado: sighs too
Eliza Madrigal: but a good idea.... we can still have homework :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you everyone for participating. I have enjoyed these meetings very much.
stevenaia Michinaga: and my first this year :)
Zen Arado: me too
Eliza Madrigal: :) Steve, nice to have you here
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes we will continue the weekly voice sessions so :)
Zen Arado: yes Steve
Avy Runner: my first too :)
Eliza Madrigal: and Avy
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes nice to see stevenaia :)
Mickorod Renard: thankyou all for keeping Wok going after Stim
stevenaia Michinaga: you meet monthy?
Zen Arado: sorry I missed last night
Ewan Bonham: Yes, thank you for allowing me to join..
Avy Runner: and sorry for not being able to shut up, hehehe :))
Zen Arado: Man Unitede were playing :)
Gaya Ethaniel: The voice sessions are on Wednesday 12 noon SLT each week.
Eliza Madrigal: didn't want you too! =P~
Gaya Ethaniel: We will resume this meeting at cafe in the new year.
Mickorod Renard: great
Eliza Madrigal: voice sessions have been wonderful too, and in the NY we can start with beauty I think..
Eliza Madrigal: and maybe jealousy at some point?
Ewan Bonham: Oh, you will NOT meet in December?
Eliza Madrigal: right
stevenaia Michinaga: glad to have been here
Mickorod Renard: I must get my mirror out
Avy Runner: so am I
Zen Arado: voice sessins continuing?
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Mick
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Mickorod Renard: :)
Zen Arado: good
Eliza Madrigal: yes so we won't be bereft
Zen Arado: do we need topics?
Eliza Madrigal: last break was too long
Zen Arado: or just oplay by ear?
Avy Runner: voice sessions?
Zen Arado: yes
Mickorod Renard: I have to go, my laptop is going to reboot
Eliza Madrigal: so good to keep homework sessions :) wed 12. It is posted on the wiki
Zen Arado: WEdnesdays at 12 noon SLT
Gaya Ethaniel: Who needs an invite to WoK SL group?
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, nice to see you Mick, bfn
Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Mick :)
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks Gaya
Mickorod Renard: bye bye all,,c u soon in pab
Zen Arado: bye Mick :)
Avy Runner: bye Mick
Ewan Bonham: Night mick
Avy Runner: eh...... I do, I think Gaya
Mickorod Renard: have to get avi back home quick
Gaya Ethaniel: ok one sec
Eliza Madrigal: hehe mick
Eliza Madrigal: can't you set to home?
Avy Runner: I think he means rl?
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Eliza Madrigal: no telling
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Avy Runner: thanks Gaya
stevenaia Michinaga: see all of you soon
Eliza Madrigal: thanks everyone. nice discussion, quite provoking
Eliza Madrigal: bye steve, see you soon
Avy Runner: bye Steve
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks all, bye :)
Zen Arado: yes thanks all
Eliza Madrigal thinks to take another nap before bedtime
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy!
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: looking for alligators
Avy Runner: hehe :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: going for the real thing myself :)
Zen Arado: nite
Eliza Madrigal: Night Zen
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Avy and Ewan :)
Eliza Madrigal: Namaste
Avy Runner: don't get me wrong, I don't like the idea of getting eaten by an alligator :))