2010.11.04 - Metta

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to see you and sorry to have missed Wed
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza
Gaya Ethaniel: Same :) It was nice to have a practice together actually.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yaku :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes that's a wonderful idea, zen told me about i
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: due to the time change he may not be here, said to send apologies
Gaya Ethaniel: Zen can't make it today because of the time difference.
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: frustrating little details
Gaya Ethaniel nods :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Mick :)
Eliza Madrigal: amazing how one can change a little number and set the whole world off on a diff course :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey mick
Mickorod Renard: Hiiiii
Eliza Madrigal: brb, tea is made (I'm feeling pretty lousy actually but nice to be here anyway)
Gaya Ethaniel: aw
Eliza Madrigal: great thing about SL :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
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Mickorod Renard: got the flu?
Mickorod Renard: or hangover?
Mickorod Renard: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: back, yes... felt better for a while today then just a little while ago headache again (flu)
Mickorod Renard: owwww
Eliza Madrigal: most hangovers don't last several days :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Cal :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Cal
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Eliza Madrigal: or if they do I've never pushed that far hah
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey cal
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi everyone :)
Mickorod Renard: I may only manage 20 mins
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
Eliza Madrigal: due to time change Mick?
Eliza Madrigal: Well quick... say something about lovingkindness :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Mickorod Renard: proberbly just the change,,without the time
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Mickorod Renard: I managed to look at the 4 immeasurables,,or was it 6
Eliza Madrigal: four :)
Mickorod Renard: I felt that they were so obvious and so in tune with my thoughts,,yet how bad I feel when at times I loose it
Mickorod Renard: how can one loose such a lovely way of life
Eliza Madrigal: oh, yes that makes sense... because they are so obvious you think that means (or should mean) easy?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: what makes us lose/forget our lovingkindness?
Mickorod Renard: I had to explain them to my son,,and later read that the budha told his son them too,,how funny
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Nice, Mick
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you think Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: thanks for your report too gaya. do you think this situation cropped up just because you were noticing?
Mickorod Renard: I have found that my anger is not prominent now,,and that as Stim pointed out once Wrath seems to have took its place
Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... I often have similar situations ...
Mickorod Renard: sorry,,tell me to shut up :)
Eliza Madrigal: no way Mick :)
Mickorod Renard: what like Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: http://ways-of-knowing.wik.is/3Reports/Gaya_Ethaniel/Report_74
Gaya Ethaniel: So as not to repeat myself ...
Mickorod Renard: ty
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Eliza Madrigal: I think we can't lose really... but we can kind of delay our realizing perhaps
Mickorod Renard: wont let me open it Gaya,,can someone paste it if its not too big?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dao :)
Mickorod Renard: Hi Deo
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey dao
Dao Yheng: hi all :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dao :)
Gaya Ethaniel: It's not always easy to walk away from unpleasant situations. What if those involved are family members, work colleagues or government officials? I've seen advantages of having thick skin ... though I'd prefer to have compassion than thick skin.
Gaya Ethaniel: Recently I caught myself thinking, "What a £$%& s/he is." I don't think it was healthy for me to react so strongly, knowing how s/he often offends people that way. Well, it was unpleasant and it's OK to allow myself some sort of reaction, hopefully not so strongly next time. What I often find difficult is the aftermath of such a situation. Often I hold onto feeling vaguely unhappy for a while afterwards. Time to practice I guess.
Mickorod Renard: owww,,thankyou
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry for the spam ...
Eliza Madrigal: :) thank you for posting Gaya
Dao Yheng: I did appreciate your report this week gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks :)
Dao Yheng: while websurfing on metta, I stumbled across a list of first start with loved ones, then friends, then acquaintences, etc...
Dao Yheng: last on the list was "people who are ruining your life" :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahaha
Eliza Madrigal: Don't we first start with ourselves though?
Mickorod Renard: wow,,that is so pertinent to a situation I had the other week,,even though I felt and still feel justified i had a job sleeping for 2 nights for fear I had hurt someones feelings
Gaya Ethaniel: Interesting ... I understand one should start with oneself than a neutral acquaintances ... than friends/family/loved ones ... finally enemies.
Eliza Madrigal: I don't think I've ever reached as far as to 'people who are runing my life'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Mickorod Renard: yes, like we ourselves are at the centre of the onion rings
Eliza Madrigal: enemies come before that
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm still mostly on myself and neutrals.
Eliza Madrigal: (not that I have enemies but I have people who don't like me)
Dao Yheng: Interesting -- I can see how people who you don't feel so entwined with (positively or negatively) could be easier
Gaya Ethaniel: Well enemies can be subtle.
Eliza Madrigal: starting with oneself can make it possible to extend metta to others...
Dao Yheng: sometimes people who you love very much can be very tricky!
Eliza Madrigal: if one stays with themself long enough to see all the 'stuff'
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes @ Dao, for sure !!
Mickorod Renard: I am fortunate to have never recognised anyone as my enemy
Mickorod Renard: a blessing
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Dao Yheng: :)
Dao Yheng: and yes, it's easy to overlook youself -- don't even see the way we tend to skip over
Gaya Ethaniel: Well at the point when I called that person !"£$, s/he was my enemy in my book at least.
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Mickorod Renard: thats true,,yes, I am my own enemy
Eliza Madrigal: last week I thought of the biblical line of 'you meant it for harm but god turned it for good' and was reminded that when buddha was confronted by mara, arrows turned to flowers
Gaya Ethaniel: Or one can be unkind to oneself ...
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't our business if someone has ill will toward us... except to wish they be released from it for their own sake :)
Mickorod Renard: that was nice Eliza
Gaya Ethaniel: Well it is, if that person comes over and wack me across my face :)
Eliza Madrigal: in some sense... not that I always "feel" that
Eliza Madrigal: :) Gaya
Eliza Madrigal: wrath would imply one could react without feeling animosity?
Eliza Madrigal: without generating anger?
Mickorod Renard: exacty
Mickorod Renard: I really feal that that is my worst,,and am happy with that
Mickorod Renard: feel*
Eliza Madrigal: that you don't feel or wish 'ill will' Mick?
Mickorod Renard: well,,satisfied for the time being
Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I really want the record to be set straight :) I confess
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Mickorod Renard: yes, it passes and I just feel sadness that i may have hurt someone with it
Eliza Madrigal: it isn't quite an ill will, but a lack of trust that if I don't fix something it will be fine
Eliza Madrigal: if I don't stand up for myself or whatever... just thinking of my weak spots :)
Mickorod Renard: I share them with u Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: being compassionate for those :)
Mickorod Renard: we will be victims but its worth it
Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... one doesn't have to be a victim.
Dao Yheng: is it though? I like those people who know how to say "the buck stops here"
Eliza Madrigal: yes where is that line of taking responsibility..
Gaya Ethaniel nods.
Gaya Ethaniel: It's me holding onto feeling upset etc. not that person imposing it after the fact.
Eliza Madrigal: gaya did things get resolved or did you come to find peace?
Gaya Ethaniel: Well this person isn't someone I have to associate ... so I just walk slowly away ... :P
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Or just cover my ears when I have to ...
Mickorod Renard: are you annoyed cos it had an upsetting effect on you?
Gaya Ethaniel: But it's not always that easy though ... some we have to learn to live together.
Eliza Madrigal: sigh, indeed :)
Eliza Madrigal: And Dao? you mentioned having a tough week...
Dao Yheng: tough month, it feels like!
Gaya Ethaniel: Well Mick, there would be always situations that would upset me I'm sure. It's not that, it's the fact that I held onto the mood for too long, in effect being not so kind to myself.
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry to hear it Dao ...
Eliza Madrigal: ack, sorry to hear that
Gaya Ethaniel: But was glad to hear that you practiced nontheless. I slacked recently :P
Dao Yheng: it's interesting -- that feeling of guilt over having done something "wrong" -- seems that's one of the main ways I hold on.
Mickorod Renard: I see gaya,,I too am familiar with it,,but its sometimg becoming history now and I feel these sessions help
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, nods... it is powerful when we can see a particular area perhaps...
Eliza Madrigal: and begin to let ourselves off the hook?
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Gaya Ethaniel: Let's say, it's you Dao who upset me ... whether you were right or wrong doesn't matter to me really.
Dao Yheng: yes -- be willing to forgive the gaffs that we can so easily forgive in people around us
Mickorod Renard: I never meditate,,always found I am too distracted,,but after reading up on the 4 immeasurables I see the importance of meditating,,perhaps on this subject
Eliza Madrigal: yes, if it is 'good' to forgive others we can see ourselves as others
Gaya Ethaniel: That sounds odd to me to be honest.
Eliza Madrigal: :) me too
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: Are we really able to forgive something in others that we can't in ourselves?
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Eliza Madrigal: I think sometimes yes, we can like someone else more than we like ourselves...
Mickorod Renard: I have to leave,,thankyou for being so patient with my ramblings
Eliza Madrigal: or more easily see why they gaffed
Gaya Ethaniel: Good night Mick.
Eliza Madrigal: or have affection for their stumbling
Eliza Madrigal: Night Mick :)
Gaya Ethaniel: mm ...
Mickorod Renard: :)
Dao Yheng: good night!
Dao Yheng: sleep well!
Gaya Ethaniel: Such forgiveness genuine Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: but I do hear what you're saying Gaya... think thats the whole point of starting with ourselves in metta practice?
Eliza Madrigal: genuine, yes... genuine in its aspiration
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Dao Yheng: For me, it's a form of pride, I guess -- sometimes I hold onto "ooh, that grammar was just atrocious" even when it really doesn't bother me if someone else botches their sentence :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I think so yes.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
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Eliza Madrigal: yes that makes sense
Dao Yheng: it's a bit of that shantideva moment -- when we can stop trying to pave the world with leather and just cover our own feet
Gaya Ethaniel: But I guess if we aren't fond of or respect the person who botched the sentence, reactions would be different ...
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: So again ... it's not really geniune kindness ...
Eliza Madrigal: I think we do the best where we are
Dao Yheng: and it's worth looking into it
Eliza Madrigal: with the aspiration to pay attention
Eliza Madrigal: once I was in a metta visualization really struggling to allow someone into the light...
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm just saying that it's good to really see what's going on.
Eliza Madrigal: I couldn't do it... didn't want them there really...
Dao Yheng: :)
Eliza Madrigal: cause I thought they'd be there 'forever'
Eliza Madrigal: next to me...
Gaya Ethaniel: Where?
Eliza Madrigal: I felt very ugly about that
Eliza Madrigal: in a metta visualization Gaya
Dao Yheng: and did you find a way through, Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: what came up was that whatever the question was, the answer is compassion....
Eliza Madrigal: no matter what I feel about it personally
Eliza Madrigal: I'm obligated
Eliza Madrigal: and I had to stay with that a long time...
Eliza Madrigal: and yes there came a release of my smallness
Eliza Madrigal: eventually :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's fine not to like someone ... maybe we are mixing up two different things here.
Dao Yheng: compassion for this irritating person, and if not that, then compassion for youself who is reacting in a way that's not quite brought to light
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: for the whole situation
Dao Yheng: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: I know that this person thought s/he may not see it clearly, harms own as much as others when lashing out like that.
Dao Yheng: yes gaya, sometimes we have our pet peeves
Gaya Ethaniel: Oh I want to hear about your pet peeves :P
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Dao Yheng: so many -- how much time do we have left?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
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Eliza Madrigal: 11 minutes
Eliza Madrigal: quick, go
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: go go
Dao Yheng: cats who walk on my head at night
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Dao Yheng: people who listen to the tv too loud
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Dao Yheng: water faucets that drop
Eliza Madrigal: ah yes... nods in sympathy
Dao Yheng: oh, and COMPUTERS!
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Eliza Madrigal: what about music in restaurants?
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: not background or something blendy...
Dao Yheng: oh yes! those restaurants with the "hip" soundtrack that's only 20 min long
Eliza Madrigal: hhaha yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Reminds me of Suzuki Roshi's comments on blue jays.
Dao Yheng: blue jays are really tough!
Gaya Ethaniel: Never had the pleasure yet ...
Dao Yheng: have you tried sitting again, gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I've started this week finally ...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Dao Yheng: I actually find it very beneficial after the first hump -- keeps me sane, really
Gaya Ethaniel: ah you mean on voice sessions?
Gaya Ethaniel: We tried yesterday, it was nice :)
Eliza Madrigal: first hump?
Dao Yheng: oh, I meant, when I'm practicing at home, if I've had a bad day, there's usually a phase where I can't sit still for another second
Eliza Madrigal: ahhh, yes I see
Gaya Ethaniel: I want to but I end up not sitting ... if that makes sense.
Dao Yheng: but then something relaxes energetically, it seems -- and suddenly all my worries that seem so pressing just stop being so worrisome
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: Nice :)
Eliza Madrigal: I love that one can really 'forget' what seemed absolutely pressing two minutes before...
Dao Yheng: well, something to play around with
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Gaya Ethaniel nods ...
Dao Yheng: Yes, it's a bit shocking, actually -- makes me wonder if I really am going insane :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I relate
Gaya Ethaniel: It can get worse - optimist :P
Dao Yheng: :))
Eliza Madrigal: then what is really shocking is that knowing that is right there all the time, one can simply not do it...hehe
Dao Yheng: it's pretty weird
Gaya Ethaniel: What's right there?
Eliza Madrigal: I feel blessed to have been forced into sleeping a lot this week...
Dao Yheng: ah, nice, sleep!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: meditation, Gaya... rest
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Gaya Ethaniel: Well I feel now that practice is like eating for me ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Not really about self improvement or anything but something I just need to do.
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Natural ... lol that popped out.
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Dao Yheng: yes -- just the gesture is reverence for something, who can say what
Gaya Ethaniel: Sleeping when ill isn't 'fix it' attitude anyway so ...
Gaya Ethaniel: Is compassion next week?
Dao Yheng: oh, do you guys want to do go onto karuna / compassion? Or maybe consider metta and karuna together?
Eliza Madrigal: sleeping is a wonderful way to integtate when one is reading/studying a lot...
Gaya Ethaniel: Together sounds interesting ...
Eliza Madrigal: yes, I like that idea too
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Eliza Madrigal: I guess I sort of blended the two already
Dao Yheng: OK, sounds good. Hope everyone has a good sleep tonight!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks, good day/night :)
Eliza Madrigal: You too Dao, and wish you smooth sailing
Calvino Rabeni: thanks everyone :)
Dao Yheng: (and good reading tomorrow :)
Eliza Madrigal: all :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope you get better soon Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Cal, you are here!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... I am functioning now at least, just rambling with strong tea, haha
Dao Yheng: we'll wander off in our various zombified states :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Eliza Madrigal: thanks guys
Dao Yheng: thank you too!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
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