07.28.2011 - Procrastination & Prioritizing

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    [02:11 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: So, is anyone procrastinating today?
    [02:11 PM]  Zen Arado: I'll tell you later
    [02:11 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
    [02:11 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
    [02:11 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: I procrastinate doing things that are a challenge
    [02:11 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    [02:12 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Like I'm procrastinating setting up my new router
    [02:12 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I've done too many things today!...I suppose that must be ancrastinating :p
    [02:12 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:12 PM]  Zen Arado: oh yes I'm the great procrastinator
    [02:12 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain rins at Zen
    [02:13 PM]  Zen Arado: we do things we like
    [02:13 PM]  Zen Arado: put off those we don't
    [02:13 PM]  Zen Arado: so what is wrong with that?
    [02:13 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: It just means I wont get wifi in my living room
    [02:14 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Do you rationalize about your procrastinations?
    [02:14 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: The idea of what one likes ... that is an interesting thing to explore.
    [02:14 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: make excuses for them --
    [02:14 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: also the notion of "wrong" would be interesting to explore.
    [02:14 PM]  Zen Arado: think we have to or we would'nt let ourselves away with it
    [02:14 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Some things we have to do, whether we like them or not...but a lot of the truly necessary ones make me feel good to do
    [02:14 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: It is easier to do things that come naturally, harder to do things that requre some form of physical, mental or emotional effort
    [02:15 PM]  Zen Arado: we feel god afte doing somethings we have put off too
    [02:15 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Yes. a sense of accomplishment
    [02:15 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:15 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes
    [02:15 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: How about just staying "BUSY" doing stimulating things in order NOT to be aware?
    [02:15 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: it can then stimulate us to do more
    [02:16 PM]  Zen Arado: hiding in business?
    [02:16 PM]  Zen Arado: busyness
    [02:16 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: aware of what Bruce? Pain? sadness? Anger?
    [02:16 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Too much busy-ness makes me feel unwell.
    [02:16 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I know that my needs aren't being met.
    [02:16 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: yes, or just replacing deeper contact with pleasant but superficial activity.
    [02:16 PM]  Zen Arado: use busyness as an escape from facing things?
    [02:16 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:16 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes. I think so Zen
    [02:17 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: yes, that's what I was getting at, Zen.
    [02:17 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: hiding under busyness
    [02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: lose ourselves in our work
    [02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:17 PM]  Zen Arado: think men do that a lot
    [02:17 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: When I'm depressed I have to do things that distract me.
    [02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: maybe that is a positive thing Aph
    [02:18 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: That is probably a good strategy, Aph.
    [02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:18 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: a constructive one, anyway.
    [02:18 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: So I can look back on my day and say- I accomplished that and that and that
    [02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: better than ruminating
    [02:18 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Doing things I wouldn't ordinarily helps me.
    [02:18 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Hi Cal :)
    [02:18 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Hey :)
    [02:18 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino :)
    [02:18 PM]  Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
    [02:18 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Cal.
    [02:18 PM]  Arisia Vita: welcome Cal
    [02:19 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: TY
    [02:19 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: However I have been told it's better to face one's bad emotions rather than covering them up
    [02:19 PM]  Arisia Vita: the Ostrich hides from unpleasant things by putting his head in the sand, but does that really work?
    [02:19 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: GTSY CAl
    [02:19 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Stuff is still there when he pulls his head out again
    [02:19 PM]  Arisia Vita: exactly
    [02:19 PM]  Zen Arado: being busy makes us feel important
    [02:20 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes - to others. It just makes me tired
    [02:20 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Sometimes the bad emotions are the sand we try to hide in...sometimes it's better to leave them where they lie and go exploring
    [02:20 PM]  Zen Arado: that word 'important' is important in this context I feel
    [02:20 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: I think it's important to note whether we are "easy" or "uneasy" with our business. . .
    [02:20 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Can you say more Ataraxia?
    [02:20 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: busy-ness.
    [02:21 PM]  Bruce Mowbray listens for more from Atari.
    [02:21 PM]  Zen Arado: the results of busyness can validate us
    [02:21 PM]  Zen Arado: sorry go ahead Vi
    [02:21 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think, at least for me, a lot of my negative feelings are like a loop...and the only way to break the loop is to just engage with something positive instead
    [02:22 PM]  Coffee Mug whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee
    [02:22 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: There are too many painful things beyond my control
    [02:22 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: A busy mind keeps me distracted as well - both psitive and negative
    [02:22 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: good strategy
    [02:22 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Thjere is such a great sound of birds. Can people hear them?
    [02:22 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Not personal or being critical ... I find it hard to engage people who get buried in that sand Atari.
    [02:22 PM]  Zen Arado: yes aph
    [02:22 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: I think there is also a case for realising you can't do something and just letting it go.
    [02:23 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: i can hear the birds both in Sl and RL.
    [02:23 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: their mouths are full of sand Gaya
    [02:23 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think most of us do, Gaya...I can sympathize, but negativity pushes others away
    [02:23 PM]  Zen Arado: it's so hard to realise when you can't do something thkiugh Lolli
    [02:24 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Charm is one line of defense against fear of commitment.
    [02:24 PM]  Zen Arado: just doing things for their own sake is something I am learning
    [02:24 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: such as washing dishes?
    [02:24 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: True. But there comes a time when you can't see over it, around it, through it and under it, that perhaps we should give up on it.
    [02:24 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: or ironing?
    [02:24 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: So, everything is an "end" in itself -- I really like that.
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: good way to put it Bruce
    [02:25 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: hmmm I think some things are means to an end.
    [02:25 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: If you're washing dishes then that's COMPLETELY what you're doing.
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: keeps us present too
    [02:25 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:25 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Like learning about things
    [02:26 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: that will allow us to do new things
    [02:26 PM]  Zen Arado: burning ourselves up in each activity
    [02:26 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: I think a challenge is "just doing" the things that you have to do anyway but don't like
    [02:26 PM]  Zen Arado: yes Cal
    [02:26 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: or not. Reading or yoga or meditating cool me down
    [02:27 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: like just listening to a chain saw at this moment
    [02:27 PM]  Zen Arado: maybe I should investigate why I don't like doing some things
    [02:27 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    [02:27 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:27 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain nods
    [02:27 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I think "just doing" necessary things is important...that sometimes keeps me from sinking too low in the sand
    [02:27 PM]  Bruce Mowbray wonders if Cal is procrastinating about coming inside.
    [02:28 PM]  Zen Arado: might find that I only thought I didn't like to do it
    [02:28 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: :)
    [02:28 PM]  Zen Arado: :)
    [02:28 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: well zen that was probably true at that point, then when "justing" it it becomes liking
    [02:28 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: I find that if I am doing the SAME activity (that I don't like) but doing it to help someone else, then it is OK.
    [02:29 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I find it interesting that things I don't like can easily become enjoyable or neutral ... it's not really fixed.
    [02:29 PM]  Arisia Vita: then always frame what you do as helping another....
    [02:29 PM]  Zen Arado: you can get to like doing things you thought you didn't
    [02:29 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: there is a purpose to your busy-ness
    [02:29 PM]  Zen Arado: when you get past your initial prejudice
    [02:29 PM]  Zen Arado: yes Gaya
    [02:30 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: So, for me, it's about the I-Process. . . and if I can release that, then the activity that "I" don't like is more lightly done.
    [02:30 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: I find of the things can't do, I have no problems coaching another in it
    [02:30 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Cal!
    [02:31 PM]  Zen Arado: and it seems easier too then Violet?
    [02:32 PM]  Zen Arado: when you have many things you want to do but simply don't have time for all of them..how do you prioritize?
    [02:32 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Atari, can you say a bit more about 'just doing' please?
    [02:33 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Oh...sure
    [02:33 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:33 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Sometimes I set aside whatever thoughts and impulses I might have to just do some chores, or some simple but necessary thing
    [02:34 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: @zen I think that's a challenge to link feeling and thought
    [02:34 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: "Just doing" something physical and positive usually has a good effect on me
    [02:34 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: to feel the ones that matter
    [02:34 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Yes I can relate to that :)
    [02:34 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: thoughts never provide salience
    [02:34 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
    [02:34 PM]  Zen Arado: go by gut feeling you mean?
    [02:34 PM]  Zen Arado: Cal?
    [02:35 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: @Cal - especially thoughts that "evaluate" our performance -- our busy-ness.
    [02:35 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: @atara that;s a good secret technique, but can reveal some activities as compulsive I think
    [02:35 PM]  Zen Arado: but I would do the most pleasurable thing then
    [02:35 PM]  Zen Arado: instant gratification vesus long term benefits
    [02:35 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Trust your own intuition about it, Zen.
    [02:35 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Go by overall holistic everything feeling
    [02:36 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Hmm. Yes. I usually feel the opposite of compulsion, in my "just doing" state.
    [02:36 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I start to realize what possibilites are open, and I think that's useful for prioritizing
    [02:36 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: nods
    [02:36 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: "just doing" has no idea of "performance"
    [02:36 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Good point, Bruce :)
    [02:36 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: "Performance" is usually a means to an end.... other that the task at hand.
    [02:36 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: than*
    [02:38 PM]  Zen Arado: guess deep down we know what we should be doing
    [02:38 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Or likes or dislikes perhaps ...
    [02:38 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Well here's a concern, the mind manages itself for an ecological balance, including all those "weedy" ideas, and for that reason, adapts to intentional strategies with additional "resistance" from the point of view of the decider ... therefore "your Jedi mind tricks won't work here"
    [02:38 PM]  Zen Arado: if we stop to isten
    [02:38 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes a significant "failure" is needed to get us to step aside form our busy-ness long enough to question what we are doing . . .
    [02:38 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Sad but true
    [02:39 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: I have a psychologist friend who once told me to go outside and find "something special" when I was having a panic attack....bringing our attention back to center is important sometimes, I think
    [02:40 PM]  Zen Arado: if we let the mind settle as in meditation we should see more clearly though?
    [02:40 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes, Zen :)
    [02:40 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: @atara that works for me
    [02:40 PM]  Zen Arado: yes Vi..a good way to bring us back to center
    [02:41 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Yes, but some seem threatened by meditation -- Perhaps it is enough just being able to rest in present time.
    [02:41 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Or sing along 'Sound of Music' :p
    [02:41 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Well meditation threatens the lock-step task orientation
    [02:41 PM]  Zen Arado: yes
    [02:41 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: because from that perspective it is useless
    [02:41 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: indeed it does, Cal.
    [02:42 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: except practically, looking at its effect, it becomes useful
    [02:42 PM]  Zen Arado: 'just don't do something, sit there'
    [02:42 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: but only when it starts to see the bigger picture
    [02:42 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: or one can take it on faith
    [02:42 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes.
    [02:42 PM]  Bruce Mowbray prefers meditation done for its own sake -- not for results.
    [02:43 PM]  Zen Arado: but maybe w have to start by doing it for results
    [02:43 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: no expectations
    [02:43 PM]  Zen Arado: or we might never do it
    [02:43 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: yeah, I suppose so -- That was true for me, I know, Zen.
    [02:43 PM]  Zen Arado: me too of course
    [02:43 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: for the first four decades, anyway.
    [02:44 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Not sure zen, because the results are subtle, hard to see, therefore hard to use to "justify" it to the instrumentalist planner guy
    [02:44 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: Mostly I meditate to escape rather than know or understand
    [02:44 PM]  Zen Arado: yeh..we are still subtlt looking for results
    [02:44 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel pokes the 'planner' :p
    [02:44 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: So Bruce, four decades of going on faith?
    [02:44 PM]  Zen Arado: we are programmed like that aren't we?
    [02:44 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: How so, Aph?
    [02:44 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: well, 4 decades of seeking results from meditation, anyway.
    [02:45 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: ok
    [02:45 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: But, for me, once one realizes that meditation can be done for its own sake - alone - then that makes all the difference.
    [02:45 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: It seems a safe familiar place to be where I can be present Ataraxia
    [02:45 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Mmm.
    [02:45 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: A refuge?
    [02:46 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: but one can make an agreement with self, about motivation, not to do the meditation for results, or to get away, or for other ends, but just to do it for whatever arises, purposelessly?
    [02:46 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: things come up, but the appeal is peace and safety
    [02:46 PM]  Bruce Mowbray loves "safe, familiar place"
    [02:46 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Then when the refuge happens, it's icing on the cake
    [02:46 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
    [02:46 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: And if it doesn't then that's fine too
    [02:46 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: for me it's the base
    [02:47 PM]  Zen Arado: yes I amtrying that with painting and guitar playing atm
    [02:47 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: it is annoying when emotions disrupt that peace
    [02:47 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes - being in the flow Zen?
    [02:48 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: not annoying so much as frustrating
    [02:48 PM]  Zen Arado: so is it wrong to do things for enjoyment solely?
    [02:48 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: no
    [02:48 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Wrong?
    [02:48 PM]  Zen Arado: seems selfish
    [02:48 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Well not wrong, but sounds like somewhat futile
    [02:48 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: everything we do is in some way selfish.
    [02:48 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: What does your intuition say about painting and guitar playing?
    [02:48 PM]  Arisia Vita: what if enjoyment comes from helping others? is that selfish?
    [02:48 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: yeah and the opposite is true too Aphro
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: futile is a bit like useless?
    [02:49 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: nothing we do is unselfish Cal?
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: and we are so trained to be utilitarian
    [02:49 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes
    [02:49 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: does that seem like a moral question Aphro?
    [02:49 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Only YOU have your answers - - - especially about "right" and "wrong"
    [02:49 PM]  Zen Arado: in my culture anyway
    [02:49 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: no, I think it is more like a psychological one Cal
    [02:50 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: what does psychology mean by that statement?
    [02:50 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: It is hard for us to do something against our own natures
    [02:50 PM]  Zen Arado: my intuition says it is ok Bruce
    [02:50 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Our cultures teach us not to trust ourselves -- and meditation "works" best when we DO trust what rises in our experience.
    [02:50 PM]  Zen Arado: but saome other bit says I should be doing something more useful :)
    [02:51 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: In a sense, shame seems like a "self-destruct" bomb built into our psychology
    [02:51 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: yes.
    [02:51 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: I think it would be possible to construe that as selfish behavior, but a little contorted as well
    [02:51 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well ... dare to trust really ...
    [02:51 PM]  Zen Arado: idleness not praised in our societies
    [02:52 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: But well practiced Zen
    [02:52 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: where socially acceptable
    [02:52 PM]  Zen Arado: so may people find it hard to adapt to retirement
    [02:52 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: perhaps because it is useless
    [02:52 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Except by Bertrand Russell :)
    [02:52 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: seems useless
    [02:53 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [02:53 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: that's cultural too
    [02:53 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: in that retirees are assumed to be unproductive
    [02:53 PM]  Zen Arado: our identity is bound up in our carreers
    [02:53 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: http://www.altruists.org/static/file...%20Kohn%29.htm
    [02:53 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: or given no constructive roles to play in the social fabric
    [02:53 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: so sure that's unsatisfying
    [02:54 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: it's what's on the meny
    [02:54 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: menu
    [02:54 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Self-shaming is one sort of heroism -- and quite theatrical, too.
    [02:54 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: be productive, retire,then be useless
    [02:54 PM]  Zen Arado: interesting TY Aph
    [02:54 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: that's a social construction
    [02:54 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: What's self-shaming?
    [02:54 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: I'm busier since I've retired
    [02:54 PM]  Zen Arado: me too
    [02:54 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: Yes, many used to do volunteer work but with the recession and what not, they are being squeezed out of those roles...
    [02:55 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Bruce, I suspect the heroism and posturing is compensatory to the humiliation
    [02:55 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: a "near enemy"
    [02:55 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: self-shaming is finding fault with one's self - - - for a variety of "reasons" -- all of which are theatrical.
    [02:55 PM]  Zen Arado: but are we proud of that and scared of what ppl think if we sat around and did little?
    [02:55 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    [02:55 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: I agree, Cal.
    [02:55 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Like when one hits one's thumb with the hammer and then says "I meant to do that"
    [02:56 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Often I find self-shaming flips to being righteous or grandiose.
    [02:56 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Hard to engage people when they do this ...
    [02:56 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Yes Gaya, I've noticed the reverse of course
    [02:56 PM]  Zen Arado: I sometimes think I should be in a monastery meditating full time
    [02:56 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: :)
    [02:56 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: that take a person who appears to have a sense of entitlement at others expense, there's some heavy shame in that background
    [02:56 PM]  Zen Arado: yes we can find pride in stupid things
    [02:57 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: The subway can be a holy as the monastery -- If one is aware.
    [02:57 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: as holy*
    [02:57 PM]  Zen Arado: true Bruce
    [02:57 PM]  Zen Arado: or an apartment
    [02:57 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Take your guitar to the subway -- AND PLAY! for everyone!
    [02:58 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: that would be "holy" -- in my book.
    [02:58 PM]  Zen Arado: but I'm not very good :(
    [02:58 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
    [02:58 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    [02:58 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: I planned to do that too Bruce, but haven't got around to it yet
    [02:58 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know ... everyone's different so some people may want to spend time in monasteries.
    [02:58 PM]  Aphrodite Macbain: who cares Zen. it would be very generous of you
    [02:58 PM]  Zen Arado: hey I might make a lot of money :)
    [02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Post youtube videos :p
    [02:59 PM]  Zen Arado: instrumentalism creeps in again :)
    [02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Almost time ... I heard that you are going to take a break until the autumn?
    [02:59 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: ?
    [02:59 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: I just want to mention that I won't be in SL much from the autumn ... so would need someone to step in for me as a backup host.
    [02:59 PM]  Zen Arado: well I thought about it
    [02:59 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: I think those philosophies are in collusion - instrumentalism, and the notion that life is about the pursuit of pleasure
    [03:00 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Zen and I considered it...my schedule is...well, getting existent again
    [03:00 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: So Atari may need to step down as well, is that right?
    [03:01 PM]  Calvino Rabeni sees the time .. 3pm, feels a little guilty remembering his TODO list, and takes scant solace from seeing WOK in the Google Calendar
    [03:01 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes; I'm not sure yet, though. My schedule might work out, still.
    [03:01 PM]  Zen Arado: we used to have a break during the summer as |i remember?
    [03:01 PM]  Zen Arado: but if most want to carry on....
    [03:02 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Yes, that's fine
    [03:02 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: There could be a non-instrumental reason to take a break
    [03:02 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: I will be here next Thursday -- and if others also show up , then we'll see what "rises" -- what emerges from our being together in this place.
    [03:02 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps then Bruce can step in as a host?
    [03:03 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: and if no one else shows up, then I will rest here.
    [03:03 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Are you proposing "no topic" for next time?
    [03:03 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: "Rising" and emergence might be a good frame for next time :)
    [03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: At the moment, it's Atari, Calvino, Zen and myself ...
    [03:03 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Do we need a host? --
    [03:03 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Rising and emergence -- I like that!
    [03:03 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: trusting emergence and rising.
    [03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Well hosts do post logs or send notices ... Atari does wiki and Zen notices ... me a backup.
    [03:03 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Would you like to be the backup Bruce?
    [03:03 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Thanks A and Z
    [03:04 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Hmmmm . . . I will need coaching on that.
    [03:04 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: It's not difficult :p
    [03:04 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: How about we just come here. . . (but if someone else will send notices, that would be good, also).
    [03:04 PM]  Zen Arado: I can still come
    [03:05 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: good.
    [03:05 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Me too; I'll keep updating the wiki until I have a schedule conflict
    [03:06 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: So, if A and Z do their usual thing, the rest of us can show up here. . . and we can discuss "Trusting rishing and emergence in our experience."
    [03:06 PM]  Zen Arado: as long as we can come up with topics
    [03:06 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: How's that?
    [03:06 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: ok for me ... I have to see how it goes ...
    [03:06 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Sounds good to me :)
    [03:06 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: rising*
    [03:06 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: (sry)
    [03:06 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: yep!
    [03:06 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
    [03:06 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: We'll see what emerges, then!
    [03:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
    [03:07 PM]  Zen Arado: enjoys the discussions here
    [03:07 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: :)
    [03:07 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: :)
    [03:07 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: me too, Zen.
    [03:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: So do I
    [03:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: They're restful, for me.
    [03:07 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: same :)
    [03:07 PM]  Gaya Ethaniel: Nice seeing you all again :) Have a good week!
    [03:07 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: OK -- Time for me to scratch up some din-din.
    [03:07 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: May all be well and happy!
    [03:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: You too, Gaya!
    [03:07 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: Thanks Bruce :))
    [03:07 PM]  Zen Arado: ty you too Bruce
    [03:07 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: Be well, everyone :)
    [03:08 PM]  Bruce Mowbray: Bye for now.
    [03:08 PM]  Zen Arado: bye for now everyone
    [03:08 PM]  Calvino Rabeni: Bye Bruce, Everyone
    [03:08 PM]  Ataraxia Azemus: :)
    [03:08 PM]  Lolli Bluebird: waves at all the leavers till next time :)

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