12.01.2011 - Sangha as a way of knowing - Part One

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    Ways of Knowing - November 10, 2010 -- Planning WoK's Future

     

    Calvino Rabeni: welcome hello Bruce and Wol

    Wol Euler: hello calvino

    Bruce: Hello, Cal and Wol.

    Bruce: (dusted off and riding once again Wol)

    Wol Euler: Wol Euler smiles.

    (7S) Uncommon Fish: Papa Flame Angel Blue: Swimming speed set to Stop.

    Wol Euler: hello pila

    Pila Mulligan: greetings

    boxy: hi!

    boxy: pila-san :)

    Calvino Rabeni: Hi Pila

    Bruce: Welcome, Pila!

    boxy: the master of i and ching :)

    Pila Mulligan: I hope all is well with each of us

    boxy: yes, me too

    Bruce: Hey, rectangular friend!

    boxy: sadly though, i'm here just to greet you

    boxy: have to go now

    boxy: sorry folks

    boxy: enjoy the wok!

    Calvino Rabeni: Adieu Boxy

    Aggers: Hi WoKers :)

    Pila Mulligan: hi Ags

    Bruce: Hey, aggers!

    Wol Euler: well, you know the old Chinese saying: "a wok is only as good as what goes in it"

    Aggers: Hiya brucie

    Wol Euler: hello aggers

    Aggers: Aggers pokes Wol ♥

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Bruce: It's not the destination; it's the wok.

    Wol Euler: Wol Euler eyes your outfit and considers wearing it too, but would have to go human for that

    Calvino Rabeni: Wok this Way

    Bruce: (a pedestrian pun)

    Aggers: Fiddler on the hoof

    Bruce: Bruce looks around for Aph.

    Aggers: Maybe she's under the couch

    Wol Euler: eating cookie crumbs, no doubt

    Bruce: just sent her a tp.

    Aggers: eekeek

    Pila Mulligan: Evidence has been found that William Tell and his family were avid

     bowlers. Unfortunately, all the Swiss league records were destroyed in a

     fire, ...and so we'll never know for whom the Tells bowled.

    Wol Euler: ha

    Aggers: Middlesex?

    Pila Mulligan: A man rushed into a busy doctor's office and shouted, "Doctor! I think

     I'm shrinking!" The doctor calmly responded, "Now, settle down.

     You'll just have to be a little patient."

    Bruce: Ask not for whom the Tells bowled - - They bowled for thee.

    Aggers: :D

    Aggers: The invisible man's outside

    Aggers: tell him I can't see him right now

    Bruce: http://waysofknowing.kira.org//

    Pila Mulligan: hi Aph

    Wol Euler: hello aph

    Bruce: Hey, Aph!

    Calvino Rabeni: Good day Aph

    Aggers: G'day Aph

    Bruce: http://hermitdog.com/questions_to_answer_re_WoK.htm

    Calvino Rabeni: (sees Aph wok-ing in place)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi. Sorry I lost track of time

    Aggers: Don't we all

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks for all coming

    Aphrodite Macbain: I have a pile of questions to ask re the future of WoK

    Bruce: Aph, I just gave a link to the updated questions. . .

    Bruce: http://hermitdog.com/questions_to_answer_re_WoK.htm

    Aphrodite Macbain: is everyone in agreement to answering them during this meeting?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce

    Calvino Rabeni: sure yes

    Bruce: yeppers, trying to answer them, for sure.

    Aphrodite Macbain: I was going to go through question by question

    Bruce: cool by moi.

    Aggers: moi aussi

    Aphrodite Macbain: Cal and Bruce have answered all of them but I'm sure have many new suggestions to make

    Aphrodite Macbain: Nice horns Bruce

    Coffee Mug: whispers: Ahh! Fresh Hot Coffee

    Bruce: ty!

    Aphrodite Macbain: we need to IDENTIFY THE INITIAL OBJECTIVES OF WOK and then decide whether we could still organize sessions that support these objectives.

      Contemplative Practice in Modern Life is what I believe WoK was meant to explore and was motivated by Stim.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Here are some of your responses to this objective:

    Aphrodite Macbain: Calvino Rabeni: One attraction though, to me, about the original formulation for WoK is that it asked the question about whether the ways of knowing of contemplative traditions could be brought into everyday life and its value systems, and if so how? So it offered a kind of balancing influence to current cognitive / economic values”

     Bruce: "Contemplative traditions" (in my thinking) includes mystics of every religious label - I wish we could find folks who understood different contemplative strains as well as Stim understands those of Buddhism.

    Aphrodite Macbain: are we happy to leave the term Contemplative Practice in Modern Life

    Bruce: I'm happy with that.

    Aphrodite Macbain: or do we want to replace it with some other objective for discussion?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Aggrs? Wol? Pila?

    Pila Mulligan: let's be careful about trying to emulate what Stim did, there is a line in the Tao Te Ching that says "If you try to cut wood like a master carpenter, you will only hurt your hand"

    Wol Euler: Wol Euler smiles.

    Aggers: Mm?

    Calvino Rabeni: :)

    Bruce: WoK is not exclusively bound by that . . .

    Aphrodite Macbain: what are you suggesting- we dont addrss contemplative practice?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Pila?

    Aphrodite Macbain: or do we want to talk about mor than that?

    Aphrodite Macbain: sorry about typos

    Pila Mulligan: just what I said -- we do not have Stim here, and should not try to act as if we do

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Mick

    Aggers: Yo Mick

    Mickorod Renard: Hi sorry i am late

    Bruce: Hey, Mick!

    Pila Mulligan: hi Mick

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes but where do we go from here then Pila?

    Mickorod Renard: hi folks

    Pila Mulligan: on our own

    Bruce: I will give Mick the link. . . carry on.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce.

    Calvino Rabeni: think for ourselves?

    Mickorod Renard: ta

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Calvino Rabeni: radical :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Pila, are you suggesting we come up with a new purpose?

    Mickorod Renard: I have read the mails re wok

    Pila Mulligan: I'm not suggesting anything at all, actually

    Aphrodite Macbain: Is everyone agreed that we establish a new purpose?

    Mickorod Renard: depends what the new purpose is

    Aphrodite Macbain: and if so.... what?

    Aphrodite Macbain: It is up to us to develop one Mick

    Aphrodite Macbain: If I'm hearing correctly

    Aphrodite Macbain: Pila - any suggestions?

    Pila Mulligan: not really, I'm saying what WoK was meant to explore as motivated by Stim is history

    Mickorod Renard: was it we got bored with the old one?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Cal suggested this: whether the ways of knowing of contemplative traditions could be brought into everyday life and its value systems, and if so how?

    Mickorod Renard: or did we not know what it was?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Could we use that as a purpose?

    Aggers: It's a shame Stim isn't here anymore

    Pila Mulligan: true

    Bruce: broadening our horizons, Mick.

    Aphrodite Macbain: He's not, so let's come up with something

    Pila Mulligan: we can come up with whatever we think we'd like to do

    Aphrodite Macbain: so.... what do you think?

    Mickorod Renard: I often think that we are still the same as we were 2000 years ago

    Aphrodite Macbain: what we are trying to establish is a purpose for WoK

    Aggers: Has it been going THAT long?

    Mickorod Renard: :)

    Bruce: For moi, "Ways of Knowing" pretty well sums it up - - we are exploring all the ways of knowing that interest us -- contemplative, scientific, and whatever else catches out interest.

    Aphrodite Macbain: I think Wok has been going a shorter time

    Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain nods

    Bruce: our*

    Calvino Rabeni: I'm not suggesting studying contemplative traditions to import them into modern culture, but the bigger project of studying ways of knowing that we engage in and looking at whether traditional knowledge can shed light on that process

    Bruce: yes, agrees with CVal and his typist on that.

    Calvino Rabeni: So yes I think I agree with Bruce, that Ways of Knowing sums it up sufficiently

    Bruce: Cal*

    Aphrodite Macbain: what do the rest of yooou think?

    Aphrodite Macbain: (including Val)

    Aggers: Val?

    Aphrodite Macbain: CalVal

    Aphrodite Macbain: read above

    Aggers: Ah

    Aphrodite Macbain: our purpose is to explore ways of knowing...

    Aphrodite Macbain: purpose

    Bruce: my tyist is to blame for CVal (sry)

    Mickorod Renard: I can see the logic in trying to see how what may appear out of date practice or understanding could in fact be realized as appropriate in the modern life if tweaked

    Calvino Rabeni: yes

    Bruce: indeed, Mick.

    Aphrodite Macbain: If I hear agreed - and we tweaking by saying our purpose is ways of knowing

    Aphrodite Macbain: tweak it

    Bruce: Yayyyy!

    Aphrodite Macbain: ok wol? Aggers?

    Calvino Rabeni: a question is whether a "way of knowing" is considered to be at a practice level or at a broader "paradigm" level, or including multiple levels

    Aphrodite Macbain: Pila?

    Pila Mulligan: afk -- phone

    Wol Euler: sure

    Aggers: I don't see why approval is needed

    Bruce: Bruce thinks Aph would make a good Quaker . . . trying to reach consensus.

    Aphrodite Macbain: I would suggest we make it as broad as possible Cal

    Mickorod Renard: perhaps unravel what may seem veiled to our modern mind by understanding the deeper values

    Aphrodite Macbain: nicely put Mick

    Bruce: yes, as broad as possible - - - (Great minds think alike....)

    Bruce: indeed, well put. Let's move on.

    Calvino Rabeni: I'd go for that, Aph, though it's worth defining each "wok" as closely as possible within the broad perspective of the group's charter ... (?)

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ok then unless I hear any objections to this revised purpose- ways of knowing in the broadest sense- we will move on.

    Aphrodite Macbain: each wok?

    Calvino Rabeni: way of knowing as a topic

    Mickorod Renard: but I am a little scared that we may loose the thread if we abandone traditional roots

    Aphrodite Macbain: cal? what do you mean by each wok?

    Bruce: each exploration. . .

    Calvino Rabeni: yes

    Aphrodite Macbain: each theme we address?

    Calvino Rabeni: yes

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ok

    Calvino Rabeni: focusing on the "knowing" aspects of the theme, etc.

    Aphrodite Macbain: I don't think we will be losing the original purpose Mick if we make this as broad as possible.

    Bruce: Bruce hopes that Mick will help us find "original roots" in each exploration.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain smiles at Bruce

    Calvino Rabeni: same :)

    Mickorod Renard: well, I don't know them well

    Bruce: ;-)

    Aphrodite Macbain: It's all available on the wiki Mick

    Mickorod Renard: :)

    Bruce: here/now roots are [perhaps] also original roots.

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK

    Aphrodite Macbain: moving on...

    Aphrodite Macbain: # 2 .We need to decide what the procedures would be to shape the FORM AND CONTENT of WOK

    Pila Mulligan: back

    Aphrodite Macbain: 3. Shall we continue meeting weekly? Bi-weekly? Monthly?

    Mickorod Renard: I was here at the beginning, and I must say that now I am a few years older,,revisiting the original would be seen from a new perspective now

    Pila Mulligan: hi 0

    Aphrodite Macbain: Hey Sam

    Bruce: YO, 0!

    Mickorod Renard: I will go wit the flow

    Aggers: Hello 0

    Samúð (oo0oo): Hi everyone :)... will just duck in and quietly listen

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce could you send sam the summary?

    Aggers: Whatever the flow is...

    Aphrodite Macbain: 3. Shall we continue meeting weekly? Bi-weekly? Monthly?

    Bruce: I am definitely for every other week.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Cal?

    Aggers: Val?

    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

    Calvino Rabeni: every other week suits me also

    Mickorod Renard: every other week sounds good, although I will miss the extra opportunity to make it

    Aphrodite Macbain: If we really research the theme and want to go into some depth, it would be useful

    Bruce: Bruce feels this agreement among great mind is going to his head.

    Aphrodite Macbain: also it is a lot of work to do for one session

    Aphrodite Macbain: ok with everyone?

    Pila Mulligan: sure

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    Wol Euler: Wol Euler nods.

    Bruce: so, every other week.

    Calvino Rabeni: the idea is to allow more attention for homework, not to make it all easier, is that basically true?

    Aphrodite Macbain: this means every second week, not 2 weeks a month

    Aphrodite Macbain: right cal

    Bruce: However, NEXT time that would be Thanksgiving. . .

    Bruce: ???

    Mickorod Renard: is there any chance that we could avoid complicated modern words

    Aphrodite Macbain: American thanksgiving

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Mickorod Renard: :)

    Aggers: Aggers doesn't know any

    Aphrodite Macbain: like Thanksgiving?

    Bruce: yeah, turkey day.

    Aphrodite Macbain: lol

    Calvino Rabeni: how about complicated traditional words ?

    Aggers: Gobble gobble

    Bruce: ;-)

    Aphrodite Macbain: soooo - 4. Shall we set a topic that can be discussed over a one week/two week/monthly period?

    Mickorod Renard: they are ok,,well any are providing they are explained

    Aphrodite Macbain: each time.

    Calvino Rabeni: do you mean "low jargon" mick?

    Mickorod Renard: I am a simple man

    Calvino Rabeni: plain talk is an interesting discipline

    Aphrodite Macbain: we will try and be as clear as possible, stating our case in a variety of ways...

    Aggers: If a difficult one at times

    Calvino Rabeni: perhaps plain talk is a way of knowing

    Bruce: Bruce feels that "gobble gobble" is pretty low, as jargon goes.

    Aphrodite Macbain: 4. Shall we set a topic that can be discussed over a one week/two week/monthly period?

    Aggers: Not for a turkey

    Aphrodite Macbain: So each time we set a topic it will be explored over at least 2 weeks?

    Samúð (oo0oo): *plain talk*

    Aphrodite Macbain: least

    Bruce: Well, since we just decided to meet every other week, a two-week topic sounds good - for starters.

    Mickorod Renard: that sounds good,,it will give me time to look all the words up i the dictionary

    Calvino Rabeni: I'd favor two sessions per topic

    Bruce: :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK some may be more complex topics that need exploring over a 4 week period..

    Calvino Rabeni: since it usually feels they scratch the surface, then I get more ideas from the meeting

    Calvino Rabeni: Calvino Rabeni thinks all topics are complex

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK -sounds good to me

    Bruce: 2 sessions per topic is good - - and let's stay flexible -- If the interest is there, we could even go for more weeks.

    Calvino Rabeni: nods

    Aphrodite Macbain: If we decide to explore an offshoot of the topic we can

    Bruce: I will keep everyone up to date on it.

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK

    Bruce: as we go along.

    Aphrodite Macbain: 5. Who will set these topics? Can we look 6 months ahead or at least 3 months so we know who is responsible?

    Mickorod Renard: also, I am happy if I am pulled up for going off track, please be honest with me

    Aphrodite Macbain: In other words, I recommend we try and plan ahead

    Aphrodite Macbain: more than 1 week

    Aphrodite Macbain: we will Mick in the nicest possible way

    Calvino Rabeni: I think that's commendable Mick, I'd echo it

    Samúð (oo0oo): Mick... you are a nice person.. honestly

    Mickorod Renard: :)

    Aggers: Aggers smiles @ Mick

    Aphrodite Macbain: sooo- planning ahead

    Bruce: I think one month ahead would be good - and adequate. . .

    Mickorod Renard: is there a pre written order of priority?

    Calvino Rabeni: no

    Calvino Rabeni: it is an emergent order

    Mickorod Renard: like a ascending stairs?

    Aphrodite Macbain: If we knew who was setting up and moderating the discussion in advance we could plan better

    Calvino Rabeni: but we might have a process for selection?

    Aphrodite Macbain: no Mick

    Bruce: well, if we planned four weeks in advance. . .

    Mickorod Renard: nothing laid out in ancient tradition?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain tries to get to the first step

    Bruce: one month in advance. . .

    Aphrodite Macbain: it was ever changing Mick

    Aphrodite Macbain: I can show you what was done the first year if you like

    Mickorod Renard: its ok,,I can remember some

    Aphrodite Macbain: Here you go:

    Mickorod Renard: ok

    Aphrodite Macbain: History: Weekly Homework was set by Stim and others on a variety of topics agreed upon during the sessions of the previous weeks. For example these questions set the subject of the discussions for the first part of 2009. They were explored each week between Feb. 12 and March 5.

     “Overview

     What is spiritually-relevant “contemplation” in the modern world? This question invites consideration of other (overlapping) questions:

     Practice—How has the practice of contemplation changed from its traditional and ancient forms? {This point will be considered first, on February 12. For a more detailed summary, see “Week One” below.}

     Theory—What are the main “view” issues that have characterized contemplation from the beginning, and what new perspectives and concerns figure prominently now? (February 19)

     Challenges—What were the challenges faced by early contemplatives, and what new challenges have arisen recently? (February 26)

     Science—How has the emergence of science, with its unique perspective

    Calvino Rabeni: that looks like a planned sequence

    Bruce: That looks like one-month planning ahead, Aph.

    Aphrodite Macbain: perspectives and concerns figure prominently now? (February 19)

     Challenges—What were the challenges faced by early contemplatives, and what new challenges have arisen recently? (February 26)

     Science—How has the emergence of science, with its unique perspectives on methodology and on both the nature of reality and human nature changed the situation? What specific challenges and opportunities does it present to the view and practice of contemplation? (March 5)”

    Aphrodite Macbain: So he set it up over two months

    Aphrodite Macbain: um one month

    Bruce: oh -- two, sry.

    Bruce: or one.

    Aggers: Maybe it was three

    Bruce: I suggest that we start with one - - and be flexible.

    Bruce: Someone might want to reserve a topic for future sessions. . .

    Aphrodite Macbain: lol I can't count. one month

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ok

    Bruce: in that case, advanced planning of more than one month would be fine.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Especially if we have a lot of ideas

    Aphrodite Macbain: Which we do...

    Bruce: yeppers.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Comments?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Who will set the topics?

    Calvino Rabeni: Would it work to have a running list on the wiki, where people can suggest a topic and indicate their interests in other suggestions?

    Aphrodite Macbain: We can come up with topics today and see who is willing to address them

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes- that would be good too Cal

    Calvino Rabeni: Then someone could plan ahead a bit with the highlighted topics

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ok moving ahead...

    Bruce: Did you want to decide next session's topic now -- or wait for a list?

    Mickorod Renard: do you think there is one fundamental topic that should be addressed as a primer?

    Aphrodite Macbain: wait for a sec

    Aphrodite Macbain: Don't know- any suggestions?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Can we revisit old themes?6. Can we revisit some of the old themes?

    Aphrodite Macbain: oops lag

    Bruce: There are excellent suggestions on the email. . .

    Mickorod Renard: its interesting that Stim used contemplation as the focus

    Samúð (oo0oo): !

    Mickorod Renard: perhaps that is the platform

    Mickorod Renard: what is contemplation?

    Aphrodite Macbain: would you like to suggest a theme around contemplation

    Aphrodite Macbain: or the subject itself?

    Mickorod Renard: maybe its too simple, especially as we are all reasonably experienced?

    Aphrodite Macbain: would you like to offer that one and do the research on it Mick?

    Mickorod Renard: I could do, although I would like to keep it simple if it was me,,cos I am not that academic

    Aphrodite Macbain: Can one person come up with the research and introduce the theme and another facilitate the discussion?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Simple is good Mick

    Mickorod Renard: I could research a background and then invite our thoughts and our own individual practices

    Wol Euler: Wol Euler excuses herself and slips away. Sorry, just too tired, falling asleep at my desk.

    Mickorod Renard: bye Wol

    Pila Mulligan: bye Wol

    Aphrodite Macbain: and discuss it over a 2 week period?

    Aggers: Take care Wollie

    Aphrodite Macbain: nite Wol

    Wol Euler: ♥

    Samúð (oo0oo): Wol :) Rest well

    Bruce: Bye, Wol!

    Aphrodite Macbain: When would you like to prepare this mick?

    Mickorod Renard: how deep do we want to go with that subject, or do we want to get into real deep stuff?

    Aggers: I'm off too

    Mickorod Renard: bye Ags

    Aggers: Goodbye and thank you for having me

    Samúð (oo0oo): :) poke! \

    Pila Mulligan: bye Ags

    Aphrodite Macbain: as deep as we can go in a two week session

    Bruce: and you could invite others to give their input - - regarding the broad topic of contemplation - through group emails.

    Samúð (oo0oo): tc Ags

    Aphrodite Macbain: by aggers

    Bruce: Bye, aggers.

    Mickorod Renard: or maybe someone else would like to do it?

    Mickorod Renard: or something else?

    Aphrodite Macbain: here are sone other ideas for topics:

    Mickorod Renard: ok

    Aphrodite Macbain: Having a hard time pasting. Can you do it Bruce?

    Bruce: Hmmm, yes... just a sec.

    Aphrodite Macbain: #4 IDEAS FOR TOPICS

    Bruce: Ideas for topics

      * Personal learning styles

      * What makes a "Sangha“ How does a Sangha come into being? Does "knowing" happen for a Sangha that does not happen for an individual apart from the Sangha?

    Calvino:

      * Personally I'm not that interested in traditional texts / sutras, Buddhist or otherwise, but I did like the Lojong series.

      It could be nice to have a topic list in one place?

      Lately I'm interested in:

     

      * What is "personality"? (How do I account for it in my daily life; mine; others'; etc.)

      * Transpersonal themes

      * Collective intelligence

      * Neuroscience - implications for theories of mind (though I don't now see a contemplative approach)

      * In addition, there are lots of ideas in the following areas:

      http://waysofknowing.kira.org/ Homework  Ideas

      http://waysofknowing.kira.org/ Homework_Ideas/Calvino

     

     Bruce: I'm up for any topics that involve ways o

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks

    Bruce: Bruce: I'm up for any topics that involve ways of knowing and that inspire genuine engagement among Wokkers.

    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð maximizes the chat window ;)

    Calvino Rabeni: well stated

    Aphrodite Macbain: hehe

    Aphrodite Macbain: we have enough for at least 6 months here!

    Aphrodite Macbain: So we can add the topic of meditation to this

    Aphrodite Macbain: as a subject in itself

    Aphrodite Macbain: anyone else with ideas? o, Pila, Mick?

    Aphrodite Macbain: 0

    Pila Mulligan: not I

    Aphrodite Macbain: oO0Oo

    Bruce: OK - - - we have lots of topics suggested already. . . (and more are always welcome, of course) - - - Shall we get specific about next session?

    Calvino Rabeni: Virtually anything could be a ground for a way of knowing, depending on the community of practice around it ... so selecting might be based on what people in the group have developed in their own life experience

    Aphrodite Macbain: still waiting to hear if there are any other ideas

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK hearing none, let's move on to what next?

    Bruce: still waiting to hear if there's a volunteer facilitator for the first topic . .

    Calvino Rabeni: Imagine making an A to Z list .. hmm, Art, Athletics, Aesthetics, ...

    Mickorod Renard: grin

    Calvino Rabeni: Babies, Bagua, Baking ..

    Calvino Rabeni: Bowling

    Calvino Rabeni: etc.

    Aphrodite Macbain: would anyone like to take  We could either facilitate our own topic or have someone else do it.

    Aphrodite Macbain: let's start with the topic

    Mickorod Renard: one thing I would have to do is work out how to use the wiki and send mails

    Aphrodite Macbain: You were wan ing to address the subject of the Sangha...

    Calvino Rabeni: that's a good one too

    Calvino Rabeni: that's a good one too

    Bruce: I can do all of that for you, Mick -- or I could teach you how to do it.

    Aphrodite Macbain: perhaps you could do this topic early next year Mick

    Mickorod Renard: ty Bruce, I used to use the pab one,,I was a scribe once

    Aphrodite Macbain: It will give you time to see how things work

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    Mickorod Renard: I was wondering what the Sangha was

    Aphrodite Macbain: So, two weeks from today is Nov 20

    Pila Mulligan: US turkey day?

    Bruce: Sangha as a way of knowing?

    Mickorod Renard: what is it?

    Mickorod Renard: is it a tool?

    Bruce: Sangha is generally understood as a community of folks who practice together, Mick...

    Aphrodite Macbain: In the suttas the word sangha (lit. "group, assembly") is usually used in one of two ways: it refers either to the community of ordained monks and nuns (bhikkhu-sangha and bhikkhuni-sangha) or to the community of "noble ones" (ariya-sangha) — persons who have attained at least stream-entry, the first stage of Awakening.

    Bruce: but there are larger interpretations.

    Aphrodite Macbain: It is our support community

    Bruce: yes, support community.

    Mickorod Renard: ok,,that sounds good

    Bruce: The three jewels in Buddhism: Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce & Cal I believe you both suggested it

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Aphrodite Macbain: to be distinguished from sangria

    Bruce: Would you like to collaborate on this, Cal?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Aphrodite Macbain likes the sound of collaboration

    Calvino Rabeni: Yes Bruce

    Mickorod Renard: so we are the Sangha?

    Calvino Rabeni: "working together"

    Samúð (oo0oo): Sangha is the state of aspiration light-bulbs in a given instance

    Bruce: Bruce likes the sound of great minds rubbing against each other.

    Samúð (oo0oo): *aspiration

    Aphrodite Macbain: this group can be considered one, as could members of PaB

    Samúð (oo0oo): flux

    Bruce: absolutely so, Aph....

    Mickorod Renard: but we just recognise this,,we dont need to learn it?

    Aphrodite Macbain: I would be interested in exploring the different ways of learning...

    Bruce: So, Cal and I will collaborate on Sangha as a way of knowing - - for the next WoK session. . . Stay tuned, folks.

    Aphrodite Macbain: it just IS Mick

    Mickorod Renard: yes

    Aphrodite Macbain: you will learn more about it through the process

    Mickorod Renard: but is Sangha a topic?

    Pila Mulligan: satsang: an assembly of persons who listen to, talk about, and assimilate the truth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsang

    Calvino Rabeni: yes, it's good to name it, that's a start for being conscious of something that may already be partly in place . the naming changes things too

    Aphrodite Macbain: yes- the next one

    Bruce: Cal, I don't mean to pull you into something without your agreement.

    Calvino Rabeni: I agree wholeheartedly

    Bruce: ok.

    Aphrodite Macbain: You can fall back on me to be a pushy facilitator

    Aphrodite Macbain: :-)

    Bruce: Cal and I will collaborate and be in touch with everyone as we go along.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ok

    Calvino Rabeni: those are handy at times, aph

    Samúð (oo0oo): Samúð contemplates notion of 'benevolent dictator', commanding or leading by example a delegation of turtles, who also delegate, but.. contemplatively.. all the way down

    Bruce: You have been a wonderful facilitator, Aph.. THANK YOU!

    Aphrodite Macbain: I would like to address the subject of learning

    Mickorod Renard: so maybe the first session is the bringing into the group, like an initiation, into the Sangha?

    Calvino Rabeni: yes

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes excellent.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bruce- you will have a record of this conversation?

    Bruce: I do have a record- - - and I will post it on our wiki tonight.

    Aphrodite Macbain: If so it should be summarized in some way. I can do that

    Bruce: for all Wokkers to read.

    Mickorod Renard: but i think we need to contemplate on the next topic either now or in-between

    Bruce: OK - - your summary would be good.

    Pila Mulligan: Aph, would you like to address the subject of learning as a discussion topic?

    Bruce: I will send you the cha tlog in advance of posting it.

    Aphrodite Macbain: OK. I'm going to summarize itr and remove all the irrelevant remarks and put it into the procedures of the WoK wiki

    Aphrodite Macbain: Yes Pila

    Pila Mulligan: :)

    Mickorod Renard: great

    Bruce: cool - - - very efficient, Aph.

    Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks Bruce

    Bruce: My pleasure!

    Aphrodite Macbain: I'd be very happy to collaborate with you Pila

    Aphrodite Macbain: So we will meet next on November 24?

    Bruce: yes.

    Calvino Rabeni: is that a US holiday?

    Bruce: 2 p.m. slt -- here.

    Mickorod Renard: all went too quick :(

    Calvino Rabeni: If so I'd not be able to attend

    Aphrodite Macbain: and December 8?

    Bruce: It is Thanksgiving, Cal.

    Pila Mulligan: Thurs = Nov 24

    Bruce: Do you want to put off the next session until December 8th?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Sorry if I act as a dictator...

    Calvino Rabeni: ah ... that Thursday 2 weeks from now probably won't be workable for US people

    Pila Mulligan: maybe start next Thursday, the 17th?

    Mickorod Renard: that's a good idea

    Pila Mulligan: then Dec 1

    Aphrodite Macbain: Is that enough time to prepare?

    Calvino Rabeni: that could work... Bruce?

    Bruce: How about Thursday December 1st?

    Bruce: yes, that would be good for me -- 12/1/2011

    Mickorod Renard: Sangha wouldn't need to be too deep

    Bruce: oh - - I can tell you've never been up to your knees in DEEP SANGHA , Mick. . . ;-)

    Aphrodite Macbain: perfect, the 1st and then the 15th

    Bruce: yes, 1st, 15th, and so on.

    Mickorod Renard: do I roll a trouser leg up Bruce?

    Aphrodite Macbain: Ok now I'll relax

    Bruce: ha ha!!!

    Calvino Rabeni: ok .. thanks everyone ... GTG... take care

    Aphrodite Macbain: wear boots

    Samúð (oo0oo): lol

    Mickorod Renard: bye cal ty

    Bruce: THANKS, everyone!

    Pila Mulligan: bye Cal

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Cal - thanks

    Calvino Rabeni: Bye :)

    Pila Mulligan: bye everyone :)

    Mickorod Renard: bye Pila,,take care

    Samúð (oo0oo): me too .. thanks tc everyone

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye

    Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! all. Let me know if you'd like to work with me on learning Pila

    Bruce: Thanks Aph! I will have the chat log to you soon.

    Mickorod Renard: bye oOOOo

    Mickorod Renard: thank you Aph,,

    Bruce: Byeeeeee!

    Samúð (oo0oo): :)

    Pila Mulligan: no, Aph, just assuring the topic got onted

    Mickorod Renard: bye Brucie

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